Volume VIII
TESTIMONY
OF MRS. IGOR VLADIMIR VOSHININ
The testimony of Mrs. Igor Vladimir Voshinin was taken at 11:35 a.m., on
March 26, 1964, in the office of the
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Voshinin, will you stand and be sworn, please?
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth in this deposition which we are about to take?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I do.
I want to add only that I will--some of my statements---or even the
majority of it, will be to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; we don't
expect you to say any more than that. And,
as a matter of fact, we would appreciate it that you would indicate as you
testify that which you know of your own knowledge and that which came to you by
rumor or that which came to you by way of statement made to you by somebody else
as to what somebody else had said or done---which we call hearsay.
Mrs. VOSHININ. All right.
And something else---some of the statements, they might have been made
such a long time ago that they won't be entirely correct.
The sense will be correct, but not the exact words.
You realize that?
Mr. JENNER. I do--but you're
going to give us the best recollection you have?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Exactly.
Mr. JENNER. We don't expect any more.
Mrs. VOSHININ. All right.
Mr. JENNER. We don't want any speculation on your part----
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Mrs. VOSHININ. I see.
Sure.
Mr. JENNER. Other than when we might ask you as to what your impressions
are and what they might not be.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, sir; I understand.
Mr. JENNER. You are Mrs. Igor Voshinin?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And what was your maiden name?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Semenov, S-e-m-e-n-o-v [spelling].
Mr. JENNER. And you are a resident of
Mrs. VOSHININ.
Mr. JENNER. 3504 Mockingbird.
And you are the wife of Igor Voshinin?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Voshinin, did you receive from J. Lee Rankin, the
general counsel of the Commission appointed to investigate the assassination of
President Kennedy, a letter asking if you would appear----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And in which was enclosed the Senate Joint Resolution which
authorized the creation of the Presidential Assassination Commission----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. That Resolution being No. 137; and also the President's, the
Hon. Lyndon B. Johnson's Executive Order creating the Commission and fixing its
rules and affording it its powers?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. Together, also, with a third document which is the rules of
procedure of the Commission?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Voshinin, you understand, then, from these documents
that this is a Presidential Commission created in the manner I've indicated and
that we are inquiring into the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and
all the circumstances surrounding it and seeking from you and others any
information you have with regard to Marina and Lee Oswald, as well as other
persons who might have or did come in contact with them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right. I do.
Mr. JENNER. And we understand that you have some information in those
areas and I would like to inquire of you about them.
I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr., a member of the legal staff of the
Commission, and Mr. Robert Davis, to whom I introduced you, is a representative
of the attorney general of the State of
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Are you a naturalized citizen or a native that is, born here?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Naturalized; 1955.
Mr. JENNER. 1955; March 7?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I believe so.
Mr. JENNER. And you were naturalized in
Mrs. VOSHININ. In
Mr. JENNER. In
Mrs. VOSHININ. I was born in
Mr. JENNER. And orient me where is that in
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's in
Mr. JENNER. It's in the
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; they are called Fore-Caucasus---[spelling] F-o-r-e---
Mr. JENNER. You are a person of higher education, are you not?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, I hold a degree in geology.
That's all.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you've had an education beyond what we, here in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, sir.
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Mr. JENNER. Did you attend a university?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Where?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I attended
first University in
Mr. JENNER. That's
Mrs. VOSHININ.
Mr. JENNER.
Mrs. VOSHININ.
Mr. JENNER. Where in
Mrs. VOSHININ.
Mr. JENNER. Now, in short compass, as I understand from your husband who
just deposed, you left
Mrs. VOSHININ. Something like that; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And in what country were you when you first became conscious
of your whereabouts?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I was in
Mr. JENNER. In what town?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Panchevo, next
to
Mr. JENNER. That's just by reputation?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. If you'll pardon my inquiry, what is your age?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Forty-five; March 21, 1918.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Where did you meet Mr. Voshinin?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In
Mr. JENNER. When?
Mrs. VOSHININ. First, I met him when I was about 12 years old and then I
didn't see him for a while; and then, I believe it was in 1939, that I met him
again.
Mr. JENNER. Where?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In Panchevo.
He was working there as a civil engineer---as a city engineer.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. I understand he's some 12 years older than you?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right. Eleven and a half--something like that.
Mr. JENNER. And he was a civil engineer in----
Mrs. VOSHININ. In the city of
Mr. JENNER. In 1942?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 1939?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, 1939;
yes. And through 1942, I would say.
Because he was in the Army during the war, you know, in the beginning----
Mr. JENNER. He was?
Mrs. VOSHININ. He was drafted to the Army.
Mr. JENNER. What Army?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yugoslavian Army.
Mr. JENNER. And you were
conscious of that fact, were you?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't--what do you mean, "conscious"?
Mr. JENNER. Well, you were aware of the fact he had been drafted and was
in the Yugoslavian Army?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, yes; that was after we were married.
We married 1940--January 21.
Mr. JENNER. January 21, 1940?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And after your
marriage----
Mrs. VOSHININ. After our marriage, he was drafted, first, to the
exercises--you know, the Army training.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
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Mrs. VOSHININ. I believe it was in 1941. You know, the war already
started--- remember?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. In 1939.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. The war started in September of 1939.
Mrs. VOSHININ. 1939; yes; something like that. And then just after the
Germans attacked
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Invaded
Mrs. VOSHININ. Invaded
Mr. JENNER. Were you there then?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, yes; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And you moved from
Mrs. VOSHININ. To German. First, they took my husband and they sent an
invitation to me, too.
Mr. JENNER. To come to
Mrs. VOSHININ. To come to
Mr. JENNER. You were directed
to go?
Mrs. VOSHININ. To
Mr. JENNER. You were drafted into the work labor force?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Into the work labor force; right.
Mr. JENNER. And you went, then, to
Mrs. VOSHININ. To
Mr. JENNER.
Mrs. VOSHININ. To
Mr. JENNER. And you were
there in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Until, I
believe, March 1945---until the Russian troops started approaching
Mr. JENNER. Already they were
on the outskirts?
Mrs. VOSHININ. They were
already approaching. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You could hear
the guns?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I didn't hear them very well--but Igor was at that
time at the outskirts of the city and he heard them quite distinctly--the city
of
Mr. JENNER. You wanted any direction away from the----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Exactly opposite direction away from Russians.
Let's put it this way. And
that was our direction throughout our life, I'm afraid.
Mr. JENNER. Your direction all your life has been away from the Russians?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; away from the Russians.
Mr. JENNER. And you went to
where?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, we came as far as
Mr. JENNER. And you arrived
in
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right--by lore of people.
First, I believe it was French Moroccan troops, they were the first who
just zoomed through
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Mr. JENNER. And you were completely liberated by them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; that's right. It was good!
Mr. JENNER. You were pleased to see the Americans?
Mrs. VOSHININ. You bet! I was pleased to see the Moroccans also, you
know--any friend.
Mr. JENNER. And did you come to
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And settled temporarily, at least initially, in
Mrs. VOSHININ. In
Mr. JENNER. Did you eventually come to
Mrs. VOSHININ. It was in September beginning of September 1955. I believe
it was around the 1st or 6th of September.
Mr. JENNER. Did you come to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, we went on vacation before we directly settled in
Mr. JENNER. Do you like the
climate here?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Very much. Yes, indeed.
Mr. JENNER. Your husband was very helpful in telling us about the Russian
community that you found here, or the community in which you moved, which he
related largely to two parishes of the Greek Orthodox Church.
He said that when you and he came to
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; we didn't know anybody at all personally.
But, you see, when we were in
Mr. JENNER. His name?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Father Alexander Chernay.
Mr. JENNER. Spell it.
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Spelling] C-h-e-r-n-a-y--or "I".
I don't know how he spelled it.
And then he introduced us to Mrs. Jitkoff's mother.
Mr. JENNER. Spell that, too.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Let me think of her name. What was her name? She died. She
was the mother of Mrs. Andre Jitkoff---[spelling] J-i-t-k-o-f-f.
And, first of all, we met her and she told us the lay of the land and all
the pros and cons of
Mr. JENNER. You didn't know Bouhe prior to this time?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Who is George Bouhe?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, he's an
accountant, I believe, and I don't know exactly for whom he worked at that time
but I know that he worked for a long time for DeGolyer and MacNaughton.
And he was sort of a manager of the Russian parish there Father
Alexander's parish.
Mr. JENNER. What parish is that?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That was the St. Nicholas parish.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about this community of people.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, there were very few people and who we met there
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were
Mr. JENNER. In what town do they live?
Mrs. VOSHININ. They live at 3712 Selkirk--[spelling] S-e-l-k-i-r-k---in
Mr. JENNER. Max Clark is an attorney, is he not?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And Mrs. Clark is----
Mrs. VOSHININ. She has also an education in the law.
Mr. JENNER. An education in law?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; from
Mr. JENNER. Is she a
naturalized citizen?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I believe so,
I don't know. She is married to
Max--uh--she probably--that's the way she got to this country. She's not a born
American.
Mr. JENNER. What I was
getting at is what is her nativity? Do
you know?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, she said that her mother is of British Hughes.
And her father was Russian--Sheherbatov.
It's a very well-known historical name.
Mr. JENNER. Spell that, please.
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Spelling] S-h-c-h-e-r-b-a-t-o-v.
Then we met a family by name Popoff--[spelling] P-o-p-o-f-f--Nicholas
Popoff.
Mr. JENNER. Does he live here?
Mrs. VOSHININ. He lives here;
yes. He's a mechanical engineer.
I'm not sure where he works.
Mr. JENNER. Was he a native of
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I think so.
And I believe that's--yes, there were some people of Ukrainian
background. I don't remember their
names, though.
But, anyway, it was a very small parish.
And there were also two priests--- young priests--one monk, Father Hilary
Madison, and another one, Father Dimitri Royster.
Mr. JENNER. That's [spelling] R-o-y-s-t-e-r?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right. And that is where our troubles with George Bouhe
started.
I mean, George Bouhe wanted to make it a Russian-speaking parish.
And Father Royster and Father Hilary were believing that it would be much
better if it were an English-speaking parish because it would be a church of the
future.
And, of course, I know, according to my brother's children, that they
always tend to go to English-speaking services, because they say that they
understand much better English. They do not understand Church Slavonic at all.
You know, that's an obsolete language, slightly different from Russian and
different from modern Russian language.
So, of course, we agreed with those two young priests more than with
George.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. VOSHININ. And here the trouble started.
And we separated finally and Father Dimitri decided to start a new
church--practically from scratch. There were three Voshinins in his church, I
believe four Chichillas--[spelling] C-h-i-c-h-i-l-l-a-s--and I think that was
about the whole parish.
And, after that, we did not have much contact with George. In fact, we
resented each other extensively. But, with the years, the resentment sort of
died out and now we are just very polite but not very friendly.
Mr. JENNER. But you do have social intercourse with George?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Bouhe?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; I meet him at a party some place at other
people's parties once in a while, but----
Mr. JENNER. Are you employed?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Self-employed.
Mr. JENNER. Self-employed?
And, when you first came here, were you employed by anybody?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I was employed by George De Mohrenschildt for half a
day and for half a day I worked for Henry Rogatz--both geologists.
I stayed
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with
George, I believe, just 2 or 3 weeks maximum amount, as far as I can
remember--no longer than a month.
Mr. JENNER. And this was in 19----
Mrs. VOSHININ. 1955. I believe in November. Either end of October or
November in 1955.
And then I started working for Henry Rogatz, for whom I worked until June
1962.
Mr. JENNER. How did you come to be sent to, or become acquainted with,
George De Mohrenschildt?
Mrs. VOSHININ. George Bouhe told me about him and be arranged it.
And he asked me to call George on the telephone. And I came there and
George right away offered me to be his secretary there and also to help him with
his projects---drilling projects, whatever he had there.
Mr. JENNER. Drilling projects?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; there was one drilling project going on and he wanted
me to participate in the geology.
Mr. JENNER. Had you known this man theretofore?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; I had not.
Mr. JENNER. Then, after about 3 weeks of working half days for Mr. De
Mohrenschildt, you began full time for Mr. Rogatz?
Mrs. VOSHININ. For Mr. Rogatz---right.
Mr. JENNER. Also, in your profession of geology?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. What did you learn of De Mohrenschildt, De Mohrenschildt's
present wife, and De Mohrenschildt's prior history?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't know very much about De Mohrenschildt's prior
history--only what he, himself, told me. I mean, I can just repeat his own
words.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You start and tell us what he told you----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then go from that to what you know of your own knowledge.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Sir, I'm afraid I don't know anything of my own knowledge.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Tell us all he told you.
Mrs. VOSHININ. He told me that he had some former wives---that he had a
wife, Dorothy, and a daughter, Alex, from this wife Dorothy.
Mr. JENNER. And that daughter's name was Alex?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Alex. Right.
And then that he had a second wife I believe he said her name was
Mr. JENNER. An entertainer of some kind?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Entertainer of some kind--right.
And he never talked about her and I understand it was a very short
marriage.
And then it was Dee Dee Sharples whom. just when I started working with
George, the trouble had started between Dee Dee and George. So, I never met her.
I talked to her over the phone a couple of times but I never met her myself.
And then he separated from Dee Dee and he found--he met Jeanne
[pronounced Zhon]. I believe that he mentioned to me that he met Jeanne before
that time, though, I'm not certain when and how.
No--I am certain how, because he said he met her at the swimming pool at
the Stoneleigh Hotel. She was living in that hotel. And then they married, I
believe, in 1959, after those trips to
Mr. JENNER. Were you living here in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, uh-huh. We lived all the time in
Mr. JENNER. What do you know about his trip to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Only what he told me about it.
I remember very well that he was getting an offer from somebody in
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And,
somehow, George didn't like very much this idea, because he told me he will go
to
But, at that time, he was preferring to work in
You see, there actually are two periods in George's life.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Tell us about it.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Before he went to
Mr. JENNER. Yes; well, that's what we want.
Now, you were living here in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Before he went.
Mr. JENNER. At the time he went to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And you had these conversations with him about going to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; right.
Mr. JENNER. And you know he went?
Mrs. VOSHININ. And I know he went; right.
Mr. JENNER. You know, by reputation, that he went to
Mrs. VOSHININ. What reputation?
Mr. JENNER. Well, by what was said. It was said that he went to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; but then he sent us postcards from
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. VOSHININ. So, we knew for sure that he was there.
And then he brought back---that I know for sure that he went to
Yugoslavia---and he brought the photo pictures unmistakably Yugoslavian that he
brought back---photographs, you know, that were Yugoslavian.
Some of them I knew--some of the places.
Mr. JENNER. You knew some of the places in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. He was over there about how long?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I thought he was there about a year--something like that.
Mr. JENNER. And this was when?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I think it was in--now, that I cannot place exactly. I
think in 1957--in 1956 and 1957; or 1957 and beginning of 1958. I'm not too
sure. But anyway, what I remember
that in 1959--it was before 1959, because in 1959 we went to Fifth Petroleum
Congress in
Mr. JENNER. And you gathered, from those introductions and talking, that
they were people in the Yugoslavian delegation to the Fifth Petroleum Congress
who knew George?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Knew George very well; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did they speak of his having been there, or what was said
that led you to affirm that he had been in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, for some reason, somehow we could not get together
with those people. We just--you know, it's not very easy sometimes to talk to
the people from behind the Iron Curtain. And
I had definite feeling that they were little bit afraid to talk to us--for some
reason.
Mr. JENNER. Because of your long stay in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, they talked our own language. Certainly.
And we just--I just met the whole group once, and then one fellow was
there who was brought up also in Banat region--- [spelling] B-a-n-a-t--which is
near the town of
Mr. JENNER. Afraid to talk to you?
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Mrs. VOSHININ. You know what he did?
For some reason he would say--- "Would you like to get out into the
corridor and meet me there and let's talk?"
And we would say a few words and they would come and he would immediately
cease talking, you know.
And then again, he would say it--and it was always in a crowd that he
would like so to talk. I don't know. That was just funny behavior--really.
Mr. JENNER. And this Fifth Petroleum Conference was when?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In 1959 end of May and beginning of June, I believe.
Mr. JENNER. Were you going to tell us about the so-called second period
of George De Mohrenschildt's career?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, I would call it the second period because, first of
all, I must tell you that in between, somewhere in the middle of the second
period, we were not on speaking terms with George and Jeanne for over a year.
So, I cannot tell anything about that period.
Mr. JENNER. Why?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That was--well, from some cracks they made. I
mean---no-well, okay. It was a silly
joke, I believe.
But Jeanne wanted to send a greetings telegram to Mr. Khrushchev, you
know.
Now, I don't know whether I made it clear to the gentlemen from the FBI.
So, I would rather say this now.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. VOSHININ. But she never sent this telegram. George told me she never
did send it. But, anyway, we were awfully angry at that--really angry. And it
was just--all that constantly, you know, and their talking in left direction----
Mr. JENNER. Their talking what?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In left
direction, I mean. They were liberals, you know, and once in a while they were
just unpleasant.
Mr. JENNER Was George De Mohrenschildt a liberal also, or was his wife
the liberal?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Wife was a liberal, definite; but George would
talk---could talk either way. George well, if he would, for example, think that
he could knock you off your feet by saying something pro-Fascistic, he would do
that.
Mr. JENNER. Saying something what?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Pro-Fascistic, you know--pro-Nazi.
Mr. JENNER. Pro-Nazi?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; he would do that by all means.
If he knew that you are a middle-of-the-roader, he would praise
Communists, you know. Communists---not
communism. In fact, I never heard George not necessarily communism itself. In
fact, I never heard George praising the Communists' doctrine even, you know,
talking about it in several ways.
Mr. JENNER. He was a
provocative personality, was he?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Definitely.
Mr. JENNER. He sought to provoke argument?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Exactly. And
to say exactly the opposite. Something
that you will disagree, and start arguing. Exactly.
Mr. JENNER. He would take either side?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Either side.
Mr. JENNER Always opposite to the other person?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mrs. VOSHININ. And yet, somehow, you know, he had that definite sympathy
for the--I would say, for the leftist regime; somehow--not in particular.
Mr. DAVIS. I wonder if I might ask a question?
Mr. JENNER. Sure.
Mr. DAVIS. Did you all ever meet people named the Kelvin Fords?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Kelvin or Declan Ford?
I met Declan Ford.
Mr. DAVIS. I mean Declan. Excuse me.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Declan. Yes.
Mr. DAVIS. Do you know them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't know
them very well. I knew her very well when
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she
was married to her first husband--but not too close with her after she married
Declan. I just met them several
times.
Mr. DAVIS. Did you attend the Christmas party that they had?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; I did not--oh wait a minute.
That was not Christmas party. That was New Year's party.
Mr. DAVIS. New Year's party?
Mrs. VOSHININ. This year's
New Year's party; yes. We attended
that. Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. DAVIS. Did you meet Lee Oswald there?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir. That was after the assassination of the President
that we attended the New Year's party.
Mr. DAVIS. Well, the one the year before?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, no. We went elsewhere.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me about George De Mohrenschildt's personality--other
than in this area of argumentation and provocation.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, I thought that he was a neurotic person.
He had some sort of headaches and sometimes he would flare into a rage
absolutely for no reason at all practically.
And I knew that he complained to me several times that he could not
concentrate very well. And once he mentioned something about seeing a
psychiatrist or something. He had
some difficulty on the nervous background.
Mr. JENNER. Was he
unconventional?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh--what does that mean exactly?
Mr. JENNER. He didn't dress normally----
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's true; yes.
Mr. JENNER. He would come to church in shorts?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Exactly.
Mr. JENNER. He would walk
into your home without invitation?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right. He was that way.
Mr. DAVIS. Sort of a beatnik?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, no; not beatnik---but he was definitely
nonconformist. He would just love to
do exactly what people would, you know, object to.
Mr. JENNER. He was not sensitive to the feelings of others?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Not at all. I believe that sometimes he definitely enjoyed
in teasing people in his own way. He
used to--in any way. For example, if
people are not politically inclined, he would shock them with some statement
about a free marriage, you know. If
they are politically inclined, it would depend on who they are. The
conservative, he would shock with communism, you know; the Jewish people, he
would shock by praising nazism, you know.
He was that type of person, you know, really, they were like children in
that respect--honestly. And what the
trouble is with George and Jeanne, both of them, I think, their main trouble is
their extreme bitterness extreme bitterness, I believe which goes back to their
former life.
Mr. JENNER. Bitterness?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Toward life, toward people, toward--you know, they
thought, for example, that almost everybody's a bigot.
For example, Igor and I were bigots because we went to church.
You know, that sort of thing. And
so and so on.
Mr. JENNER. They were unreligious people?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, sir; they were actually fighting atheists.
Mr. JENNER. They were aggressive atheists?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Aggressive, definitely. And they would just state it in,
sometimes, quite rude fore. One definitely would object against the form,
mainly--because, after all, everybody should have his own belief.
There is nothing criminal to be an atheist either, but the fore in which
they did it, you know, the impoliteness.
Mr. DAVIS. Did you ever notice that they tended to want to help people?
Mrs. VOSHININ. To help people?
Mr. DAVIS. Were they the type persons that were always trying to help
someone that needed help?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; not always; uh-uh.
But, I think that by nature, they
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are
very, very good natured--definitely. They're for the underdog, you know--always.
And--well, compared to George Bouhe, whose whole life is dedicated to helping
people whether people wanted, it or not, you know--they would be nonhelpful. You
know, they would not bother so much about people as George Bouhe did.
Mr. JENNER. They weren't aggressive about it as George Bouhe was?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
But they were very--are very good natured.
Mr. JENNER. And generous people?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Not George--no. Jeanne, yes; but not George.
For example, their relation to Oswald. They definitely pitied him very,
very much. They were very sorry for him. And
they tried to help him in any way they could.
Mr. JENNER. Now, that you have mentioned the Oswalds, did you ever meet
either one of the Oswalds?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; uh-uh.
Mr. JENNER. Did you hear about the Oswalds?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In what connection did you first hear or read or learn about
their existence? Fix the time, first.
Mrs. VOSHININ. My husband read it in the newspaper.
Mr. JENNER. That would be in June of 1962?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I really can't say.
Mr. JENNER. They arrived here in----
Mrs. VOSHININ. They arrived here and there was an article in the
newspaper.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. They arrived in
Mrs. VOSHININ. I didn't know about----
Mr. JENNER Well, I'm just telling you that that's so.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh-huh. Thank you.
Mr. JENNER. And then your husband read an item in the local paper--about
what?
Mrs. VOSHININ. About them arriving here and from where did they come.
They came from
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said in this article that arrested your
attention as to the circumstance of their coming, or his circumstance or
happenings in
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't remember very well whatever was there in the
article. I didn't read it myself. But
what I heard of them was from my friends---first, from the
Mr. JENNER. Boorish?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Boorish. Has bad manners and arrogant. I don't know the
right English word for that. Arrogant, maybe.
And, so, we decided that we don't want to associate with him at that
time.
And the second time I heard from them--no, between that time between
Clarks and De Mohrenschildts--I heard from them some other people in the St.
Nicholas Church. They mentioned them.
Mr. JENNER. You said, I heard from those people about Oswalds--about two
Oswalds. Right?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; and they were usually positive about her and somehow
uneasy about him. They liked her. And the only thing that I heard--the only
people that I heard about the political inclinations of Oswalds were De
Mohrenschildts.
Mr. JENNER. In conversations with the De Mohrenschildts?----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. They related to you their views as to Oswald's political
inclinations?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did they say and who said it--which of them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. First of all, we did not discuss it. It was rather remarks
on George's side because we asked George definitely and Jeanne not to bring him
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to
our house and not to invite us when the Oswalds are there because we had certain
reasons--not evidence but reasons to believe that he might be a Soviet agent.
Might be, you know. But not sure at all whether he would be or not.
Mr. JENNER. Since there was in your mind a possibility, you didn't want
to have anything to do with them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. We wanted to Stay away from them. Yes. And the
Mohrenschildts argued with us about that. George would say always that he was a
very mild person, that he wouldn't hurt a fly.
And, then, later--that was at the beginning--that was at the very
beginning--and then later, somehow, believe George started seeing through Oswald
a little bit. That's my own opinion----impression.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you go ahead and talk.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Because he told me on several occasions that, "You
know, I believe that he's just an idealistical Marxist." And he said,
"You know, he's one of those pure Marxists." You know, meaning a
Marxist in theory but not in practice.
And finally I remember a pretty good conversation--George mentioned the
possibility of Oswald being actually a Communist. Because, he said, you know
Natalie, I believed that he remained what he was."
And I remember definitely that conversation because Jeanne took George
right away and she was protesting vigorously against that statement.
And she said that she does not believe that he is a Communist because he
.was very disappointed with Mr. Khrushchev and Russia--and then, of course, for
obvious reasons, that doesn't mean that he is not a Communist if he is
disappointed with Khrushchev and Russia, you know. I remember that argument--but
more than that, I just can't say, because I just don't remember that far away
the conversations. But we got, again, you know--the picture was sort of shaping
up about Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. You tell us in your own words what picture was shaping up
about Oswald. What did you mean by that?
Mrs. VOSHININ. By that, that we wanted to stay away from him, definitely
for a period. You know, that he was just---that he just was a dangerous person.
For this reason, first of all, Soviets seldom let anybody in unless they have
certain plans for that person especially a person of non-Russian descent.
Yet they let him live there. Right?
Mr. JENNER. They let him in in the first place?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In the first
place. So, they must have had some
plans for him. He stayed there for a
length of time. Right? I believe, 2
years.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. He went there in September of 1959 and left in--oh--the
tail end of May or the first part of June 1962.
Mrs. VOSHININ. 1962? So, it's three years. Right?
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Then, for
these 3 years---this is all our own theory, we have no----
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I know.
Mrs. VOSHININ. You understand?
For these 3 years, he could have got his training? Right? Whatever it is.
Thirdly, his exit from
And, thirdly, we believed that--we were expecting, rather, to hear from
Oswald publicly some anti-Communist declaration, some, you know, reports,
lectures, or a couple of articles in the newspaper, you know, we expected from
him to behave like a person who got disappointed in communism, came here
sincerely--like people we know. For
example, Eugene Lyons or Captain Khokhlov, you know.
Mr. JENNER. Spell that.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Let me write it (writes out name). So, his behavior after
he came here, from what we heard about his behavior, was unnatural. He was sulky
instead of being very happy that he is back. Right?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
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Mrs. VOSHININ. According to
George, he was a great---he had great intellectual power; he was very clever
person---definitely intellectually inclined and very well-read person; and that
he was--he couldn't find a job. Now,
wouldn't that be natural for an intellectual person to go get his living
lecturing against communism?
Mr. JENNER. Were you harkening back to your own history----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes. I might have done it if I hadn't had my own
profession.
Mr. JENNER. That you were able to obtain positions?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Everybody would be able to to obtain a position. Khokhlov,
he was in Washington, D.C., even, I believe. I don't remember exactly what he
was. But, anyway, all those people not only expressed their beliefs and shared
their beliefs publicly, you know, with other people----
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. But--the other point was that it would really help Oswald
materially, don't you think so, in a material way? He would earn some money.
Other people were earning their living by lecturing on anti-Communistic
talk. So, why did he have to sit jobless or to go to the factory--or whatever he
did, I don't know exactly, whatever work he worked--instead of going and
lecturing, which he never did. Right?
Mr. JENNER. Right.
Mrs. VOSHININ. From what we heard of him he never expressed himself for
being anti-Communist, We remember that. We
never heard a word of this.
Mr. JENNER. Did it ever occur to you that his knowledge and his learning
was entirely superficial and he didn't have the capacity to lecture?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Not never. Because George was so emphatic about his mental
powers, about his erudition, education, you know, that it really never occurred
to me. I thought that he was an
intellectual, very well read. Because
George said that many times. He
said, "He's a very interesting person, he's very well read, a very
intelligent person."
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever argue this with De Mohrenschildt--say,
"Well, why doesn't he lecture? I don't understand this?"
Mrs. VOSHININ. I remember I did ask that--and I don't remember the exact
answer. Whatever it was, I don't remember. But, as far as I remember, they said
something that maybe from the gratitude to Russia, or something like that, he
doesn't want to do that, and said they'd leave that up to him.
Mr. DAVIS. Did George De Mohrenschildt ever mention that Oswald spoke
fluent Russian?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; he did. Uh-huh. He said that Oswald spoke very good
Russian.
Mr. DAVIS. Did he ever discuss where he learned to speak Russian so
fluently?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; in fact, he did not discuss or quote I don't remember
him discussing extensively Oswald's background or quoting what Oswald said about
what. I tried to remember it yesterday very hard, you know, but just couldn't. I
just don't remember.
Mr. DAVIS. I wonder if I might ask an opinion of you here? If he were
working, say, in a factory or in normal pursuits in Russia for, say, 2 years,
would it be possible to become that fluent in Russian--just from the fact of
working--just from the fact of working there?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I think so. Yes; I think so--because, after all, you rub
shoulders with Russian workers, you know, so you're in it all the time. It's
good that you ask the question, because there was one more suspicious thing
about Oswald. According to hearsay, his wife said that Oswald had a very nice
apartment in
Mr. DAVIS. Did she tell this to you?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; I never met her. But I heard from other people I
think, Mrs. De Mohrenschildt said that, I believe.
Mr. DAVIS. That they had a very nice apartment?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; that they had a very modern, nice apartment in
Mr. JENNER. What would a nice apartment in
Mrs. VOSHININ. No.
Mr. JENNER. What concept did you have in your mind when Mrs. De
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Mohrenschildt
said to you, "They had a very nice apartment in
Mrs. VOSHININ. I didn't think of apartment. I immediately thought of why
must they have it. I thought maybe he had a roomette with a bath and kitchen.
Something like that, you know. Certainly not nice according to our standards
here. That's for sure. But there was another little thing.
And that was another hint to me that why did they hate him?
Usually, Russians are very cosmopolitan people, you know.
They like foreigners. Now,
why would they hate a guy? And I
come to conclusion that maybe he reported on them---or something like that. You
know, little by little but do you understand, sir, that everything I say, taken
separately, doesn't mean anything, probably.
But you just put it together and it sort of tells something to us, you
know.
Mr. JENNER. You go right ahead. What
you put together and what impresses you, little by little by little, is helpful
to me in bringing out the bases upon which you had these views and opinions.
So, don't be embarrassed about it or hesitant.
I want you to say, in giving these impressions, why, what you base them
on--and I understand that you are rationalizing.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Did you want to ask a question, Mr. Davis?
Mr. DAVIS. Do you recall if
George De Mohrenschildt ever mentioned to you the fact that the Oswalds had been
in
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; he never
did.
Mr. DAVIS. You don't recall anything about them being in
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't remember anyone mentioning them being in
Mr. JENNER. Some of her gossip?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. I would like to have you, when you're giving us these
impressions, however, give us your impressions as you had them as of the
time----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. And not influenced by what you have learned and read since
November 22, 1963.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And that's what you are doing, is it not?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Fine.
We interrupted you. You were relating your rationalization as to your
fear or aversion to this person known as Lee Oswald, who had been in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. And why, in your mind at this time about which you speak, you
were fearful that despite Mr. De Mohrenschildt's attempted reassurances to you
that he, Oswald, wasn't acting like a person who was free of Russia, so to
speak, and had an aversion to Russia, who you expected to be doing some things,
here, such as lecturing and what-not, and these were things he wasn't
doing--from which you concluded you had some misgivings, at least.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right. And have you recounted all of that now?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You have completed your rationalizing statement in that
connection?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; right.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. Voshinin, was there a period of time or a series of occasions that
troubled you and your husband with respect to the activities of Mr. De
Mohrenschildt and also his present wife with respect to trips to Houston, Tex.?
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Mrs. VOSHININ. It didn't trouble us actually, because we knew very little
of his business and we just were not very much interested in his business
affairs--but we just noticed that he was traveling to
Mr. JENNER. To
Mrs. VOSHININ. I mean to
Mr. JENNER. Were these regular?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Quite regular. And
usually it would coincide, somehow, with his next assignment. You see, you asked
me to think at that time, prior to November 22, 1963. At that time, it did not
bother us at all. We just didn't
give much thought to that.
Mr. JENNER. But you noticed it?
Mrs. VOSHININ. We noticed it definitely. Yes. Because he was always
expecting some telephone calls from
But he also was traveling so extensively that it was absolutely
impossible to remember everywhere where he went. I know that he went a lot to
Mr. JENNER. Did you and your husband have occasion to discuss these
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; recently. And
we discussed also those
Mr. JENNER. Character?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did you gather from that? Did she use the word
"character"?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; Teep [phonetic] is "type" in
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I appreciate what you mean by character--but what kind
of a person?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, unsavory character.
Mr. JENNER. Unsavory character?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I understood politically unsavory.
Mr. JENNER. Politically unsavory?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right. That's what I understood.
And also Mr. and Mrs. Jitkoff, on several occasions, expressed surprise
that we became friendly with De Mohrenschildts again--and I assumed that it was
on the basis of his visiting this particular person in
Mr. JENNER. Did they name the person?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't remember their naming the person; no.
But she said something--I just don't remember, really, what she said.
But we thought that the Jitkoffs don't know George De Mohrenschildt too
well, you know, and that's why they might be little bit exaggerating, you know,
the bad character of George. Because, if you know him well, you can see why he
thinks. [laughing]
Mr. JENNER. Did it occur to you or your husband, now that you reflect on
the matter, that the trips to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Never.
No. In fact, we didn't think
of Oswald very much.
Mr. JENNER. I am talking about your rationalizing last night or----
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. It never did. No. I was quite certain that it had
something to do with his Haitian assignment. It was rather business trips.
Mr. JENNER. But you do know that you were not aware of what the character
of his business was in
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. You just assumed he had business in
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes. That's right.
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Mr. JENNER. You didn't know?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I didn't know.
(Off-the-record discussion follows.)
Mr. JENNER. Now, we have inquired of Mr. Voshinin about the famous
walking trip of the De Mohrenschildts from the border of
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Did he make such a trip?
Mrs. VOSHININ. He says he did--and he brought some films and some photo
pictures--photographs and moving films, and on the moving film there was that
volcano eruption, you know--so I assume that he did make the trip.
Mr. JENNER. Did you receive any cards from them as they wended their way
down?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; we were not on speaking terms with them.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, this is the
period when you were not friendly?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No.
Mr. JENNER. And afterward,
when they got back----
Mrs. VOSHININ. We met them at
Ballens.
Mr. JENNER. And some of the
friendship was restored?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And you did see
moving pictures of----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; of their jungle life.
Mr. JENNER. Jungle life, and in those moving pictures, were there
pictures of Mrs. De Mohrenschildt included?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; but, of course, it was either he or she because one
of them was taking pictures.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
But you saw representations in the movie film of him----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. When she was taking the picture or you assumed she was; and
you saw also her----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. In the moving
film when he was taking, or you assumed?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you mentioned a volcano erupting. That drew your
attention to a particular incident, did it?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; it did not. It only--you know what I was actually
wondering, for no reason at all, asking myself whether those pictures could have
been taken elsewhere but in
Mr. JENNER. The volcano eruption--did that sequence of frames in the
movie strip, did it include pictures of Mrs. De Mohrenschildt?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; she was standing right at the flowing lava.
It was a very beautiful picture.
Mr. JENNER. And did the movie film also show him in that area?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; Uh-uh.
Mr. JENNER. Did they say where the volcano was?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I am not sure they said where it was.
Mr. JENNER.
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't think it was
Mr. JENNER. What is your beet recollection?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Somewhere near
Parikutin, I believe. Somewhere
there.
Mr. JENNER. Spell that, please.
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Spelling] P-a-r-i-k-u-t-i-n--because this is one of the
recently erupted volcanoes in
Mr. JENNER. All right.
When was this event--the walking trip from the border to
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't know.
Chronologically, you mean, when was this?
Mr. JENNER. Well, give me the time, first, the year--as you best recall
now.
Mrs. VOSHININ. I really cannot do that. Because it was in 1959 that
Khrushchev came to this country, right?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
I believe so.
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Mrs. VOSHININ. So, before that, we broke our relationship, right?
And we restored it after the trip.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now,
the trip came after Mr. Khrushchev had visited this country?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Visited this country. And it was 1961, I would say. They
returned probably in 1961.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall the incident of the attempted and ill-fated
invasion of
Mrs. VOSHININ. You mean, that President Kennedy is----
Mr. DAVIS.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; the
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; I do remember that.
Mr. JENNER. Now, when was this walking trip with respect to that
event--at the same time, a little bit before, a little after?
Mrs. VOSHININ. You know, I couldn't say absolutely. I'm very bad on
dates--and I don't remember even the date of the
Mr. JENNER. Now, you've put me in a bad spot.
Mr. DAVIS. Well, it was in--shortly after 1960.
It would be about March of 1960.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Right.
Mr. JENNER. The President was elected in November 1960.
Mr. DAVIS. It was very shortly after that.
Mr. JENNER. Well, the invasion of the
Mr. DAVIS. I think it was probably about that time--or in February.
Mr. JENNER. It was sometime very shortly after he took office. During the
first 2 or 3 months of 1961. It wasn't long after he had been inaugurated and he
was inaugurated January 9, I think it was, 1961.
Mr. DAVIS. The 20th is inauguration.
Mr. JENNER. Twentieth of January?
Mr. DAVIS. Yes. I think it was in late February or early March.
Mr. JENNER. Well, that's reasonably accurate.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh-huh. Maybe they were in
Mr. JENNER. They might have been in
Mrs. VOSHININ. In
Mr. JENNER. On the way back from the Mexican walking trip?
Mrs. VOSHININ. From the Mexican walking trip; yes. They walked through
Mr. JENNER. Did they ever say anything or did you ever have the
impression that they had visited
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. But
something--I think he did not visit
Mr. JENNER. Was there a time when he visited
Mrs. VOSHININ. There was; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Well, tell us about that.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, that was after he came back from
Mr. DAVIS. Was he a stamp collector?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No.
Mr. DAVIS. And this article said he was?
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Mrs. VOSHININ. That's what the article said; yes.
But I just glanced through it, I mean. That's what caught my eye. That's
all.
And then he also brought some photographs from
Mr. JENNER. You saw some photographs from
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; from
Mr. JENNER. And you saw this newspaper?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; and I saw the newspaper--and I believe this newspaper
was in English. The French newspaper was from
Mr. JENNER. It was a
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; in English language written in English language.
And that's what it said there.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever talk to him about that?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I believe so.
I believe I asked him, and he said that he went there on account of some
Swedish, I believe, businessmen to look for some oil leases, and he had to sort
of conceal his profession, you know--that this is a competitive business and you
don't advertise you are geologists looking for oil, you know.
But then, again, we, both of us, refrained from asking any questions of
George's trip because George repeatedly hinted that he was doing some services
for the State Department, you know.
Mr. JENNER. Of the
Mrs. VOSHININ. Of the
Mr. JENNER. What foreign trip?
Mrs. VOSHININ. He was traveling to
Mr. JENNER.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, let me have I have it on piece of paper.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, you have?
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Referring to paper which she took from her bag.]
Prior to 1955, he told me, he was in
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. VOSHININ. He was drilling some well--made some very good oil
discovery in
Then he worked in
Mr. JENNER. Did you recognize any of them?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, sir; I haven't been in either of this countries. And I
believe he went to
Then, also, on the way to
Mr. JENNER. You were aware that he was making these trips. Now, whether
he actually made them or not, you don't know----
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I don't know.
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Mr. JENNER. Other than that he told you that?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; and then he disappeared, you know. And he would tell
us and then, of course, go away. But,
for example,
And then I noticed he visited--he mentioned that he visited--I don't
know--he mentioned that he visited
Mr. JENNER. Sometime in between what?
Mrs. VOSHININ. In between his walking trip and 1955.
Mr. JENNER. That was in between 1955 and his walking trip that he had
visited
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; he mentioned, at least, visiting them--but I'm not
sure.
Mr. JENNER. But you were aware of his absences from
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; definitely.
Mr. JENNER. And the general conversation in the community in which you
moved that he was making trips to the places that he purported to be making?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And, upon his return, would he, in turn, recount his
experiences in these various places and countries?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Sometimes he would, yes; but he would never tell us what
his business there was. Nobody was interested in that anyway.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. He wouldn't tell anything about it. But he would tell,
yes; about--he would sometimes bring photographs like he brought from Europe,
from
Mr. JENNER. Well, photographs that he had purportedly taken, or picture
postcards or things he had purchased?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; there were taken photographs.
Mr. JENNER. Ones that he took?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
And also, of course, he sent us a card once in awhile. Now, I don't
remember--from
Mr. JENNER. Now, you got cards from
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Before this last
Mrs. VOSHININ. I believe so; yes; I don't remember very well; yes.
You know, when he went to
Mr. JENNER. You did get cards?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. You were aware of his departing for
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, yes;quite.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that. When you first learned of it, what he
said, what she said, and then his departure.
Mrs. VOSHININ. A few months before their departure, he told us that he is
working on getting a job with Haiti and that--I understood--that foreign aid
money was involved there and this was connected with the State Department again.
It was not just invitation of the
And he worked on that for a few months, and he was traveling quite a lot.
Mr. JENNER. Back and forth to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Not to
Then, he went to
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was
a letter from the bank saying that $20,000 was deposited in his name at that
particular bank, and I understand it was by Haitian Government. That's what it
was--as far as I remember.
Then, he said that he would like very much to invest some of his money in
sisal plantation--[spelling] s-i-s-a-l. You know, making in rope.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; you use
sisal to make rope.
Mrs. VOSHININ. And I asked him whether he was going just to manage sisal
plantations or not, because he was mentioning them all the time. He says,
"No; I want to invest some money into that."
And I understood that his intention was to settle down in
Mr. JENNER. This walking trip down through
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes, I think so. And
she said she was very ill on that trip.
Mr. JENNER. She was?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. In these movies, how were they dressed?
Mrs. VOSHININ. According to the film, he was wearing shorts and she was
wearing very torn dress--which looked like that Tarzan lady on the films, you
know.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. And some of the pictures were her with scarcely anything
on [laughing], with very little dress on.
Mr. JENNER. Did you get the impression that this was deliberate because
they were apprehensive that they might be attacked as they walked?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Robbed, you mean.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; robbed.
Mrs. VOSHININ. No, I thought it was more practical--because the branches
scratch and tear your clothing, and, you know, less clothing you have always it
is the better. However, they were traveling with a mule which probably would be
considered by Southern American robbers as valuable thing. So, they could have
been robbed. In fact, they were attacked at night once and had to shoot it off.
You know, they were shooting.
But, they were very poorly dressed because Jeanne told me that they were
taken in the cities for paupers--they were mistaken for paupers, and people
would lend them money.
Mr. JENNER. Give them pesos?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes [laughing].
Mr. JENNER. All of which, I am sure, Mr. De Mohrenschildt enjoyed
thoroughly?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Tremendously [laughing].
Mr. JENNER. Now, if you can remember any more, I wish you would tell us
about De Mohrenschildt's comments with respect to the Oswalds and the
impressions that you gained of the Oswalds---as to how they got along whether he
treated her well or poorly?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oswalds---his wife?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Treated very poorly. Because
De Mohrenschildt told us that he was beating her. Then, she ran away from him
and De Mohrenschildt tried to help her, you know, to settle down and to separate
somehow, but then, they reconciliated. And after the reconciliation, Jeanne
mentioned twice that
Mr. JENNER. Black and blue eyes?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said, that you can recall, of either of them
returning to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Either of whom?
Mr. JENNER. Either of the Oswalds?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Returning to
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Mr. JENNER. No mention of the fact--if it was a fact--that Oswald wanted
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I never heard that.
Mr. JENNER. Or, that they both desired to return to
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I never heard that.
Mr. JENNER. Just nothing at all concerning----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Nothing at all concerning that.
Mr. JENNER. Any conversation that came to your attention with respect to
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; that was discussed by De Mohrenschildt.
And George thought that
Incidentally, that was again one of those things that was pigeonholed
against Oswald, you know. Because the why--you know, the reason that he gave.
Why would he want that?
Because, really, there was one more point that was very strange about
Oswald-my feelings were. He sort of wanted to cut off the communication of
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Now, I'd like to ask you a few questions about that.
That's why I asked you all the detail about your coming here, and how you
became acquainted. This was out of
the ordinary, as far as the community in which you moved is concerned?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; yes.
Mr. JENNER. I take it that that community was Bouhe, De Mohrenschildts---
and however you may have liked or disliked them in their efforts, the attitude
always was to get everybody acquainted with everybody else as quickly as
possible and to assist them? Now,
this would be especially true, for example, of
Mrs. VOSHININ. I really can't say because we are not very close with that
circle, St. Nicholas circle, you know--St. Nicholas Parish circle.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I really am not thinking about that particular parish.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. I'm trying to put the background to what was bothering
you--that the normal thing that you expected-- would expect of these people----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, yeah I understand you now. Yeah. Quite.
Mr. JENNER. Was that he would bring her into acquaintance with those with
whom she would be able to converse, anyhow, in Russian?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And become acquainted, and then, through them, to learn or
otherwise to acquire facility with the English language----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Quite; or send her to school, at least, you know. That's
the natural thing to do for us when we come to this country--you know, just do
it as soon as possible. Right?
Mr. JENNER. Yes. And what did you understand with respect to her
education?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I understood that she was a pharmacist but she did not
have a higher education because she was too young in age and I believe that
George mentioned that she went 2 years to college.
Now, that wouldn't be college in
Mr. JENNER. No.
It would be something like junior college here?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Juniors or something like that. It would give her
technician status rather than a specialist in pharmacology.
Mr. JENNER. Did there come to your attention, in moving about your
friends
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and
the people here, her general level of erudition and education and intelligence
in comparison with his?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. Now, of course, what I'm saying is hearsay, right?
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that.
Mrs. VOSHININ. But several
people said differently. For
example, I heard from the ladies--from the Russian ladies of our parish that she
was--you could see that she comes from an intelligent family, from a nice, you
know, well-educated family. She has good manners and everything and she was
quite a clever girl. Now, then, that
she was sort of. I thought, more
clever than he was. You know, some
people who are more developed----
Mr. JENNER. And more educated?
Mrs. VOSHININ. And more educated. Yes. While George insisted on just the
opposite. He was absolutely impressed with Oswald's mental powers, for some
reason. And he sort of looked down at
So, I really don't know what to think.
Mr. JENNER. When was the last you heard from the De Mohrenschildts?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That was Christmas. We received a card from them.
Mr. JENNER. 1963?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; it was in 1963.
Mr. JENNER. And what contacts, if any, did you have with them prior to
that time that is, while they were still in
Mrs. VOSHININ. With the De Mohrenschildts before Christmas 1963?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, she wrote me two letters; I wrote her one letter.
Mr. JENNER. Have you had any contact with the children either of Mrs. De
Mohrenschildt or of Mr. De Mohrenschildt---recently?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, we were visited by her daughter--by Chris--twice.
Once
it was before Christmas and----
Mr. JENNER. But after
November 22?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Right. It was about 3 weeks
before Christmas, I believe, or 2 weeks. And now they were recently here,
just--they left on March 15. They left
Mr. JENNER. Did they say anything during the course of this social visit,
or visit here, about the De Mohrenschildts-- George and Jeanne or Jean or
Eugene?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, Eugenia is right. You know they said so much, I just
hate to repeat it because I just don't know how much they exaggerate. They were
angry with both of them and I just don't believe that----
Mr. JENNER. Well, I don't want you to repeat all the personal things.
I wanted your overall impression, which you have now volunteered, that
they were angry with George De Mohrenschildt and Mrs. De Mohrenschildt.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Angry in what
sense?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh--they said that they were not
very hospitable for one thing and, for another things, they--well, they said
that George and Jeanne took a turn for the worse politically.
Mr. JENNER. Well, now, would you develop that, please?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I hate to do
that because I just don't know how true it all is.
Mr. JENNER. I understand that all you are doing is telling us what they
said. It is pure hearsay. I understand.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Pure hearsay of angry children.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's what it is. Right?
Well, they said that the majority of their trouble with Jennne and George
was because they were shooting their mouths off there pro-left and against
United States--something to that effect; Chris said that George was making the
most--the funniest accusations--statements in public, you know, like at cocktail
parties, for example.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. That he does not believe that Oswald murdered the
President; that he believes that rightwing or FBI, I am not sure and this was,
of course, awfully shocking to children.
Mr. JENNER. He believed that the rightwing or the FBI what?
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Mrs. VOSHININ. That's what the children said.
Mr. JENNER. What?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Murdered the President. That's what the children said and
I, frankly don't----
Mr. JENNER. You don't put much stock in it?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I don't.
Mr. JENNER. Did the children express any opinion as to whether these were
rantings or nonsense or----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Of course, they were outraged by the statement, like
everybody is. But what I want to say only that sometimes George gets so hitter
he doesn't know what he says; you know, just doesn't know what he says. So,
that's why I believe that you cannot approach George or Jeanne to this extent
with standard measures. You cannot measure them by standard measures at
all--what they say or what they do even. They require different measures.
Mr. JENNER. Well, that opinion on your part is something that we
necessarily must weigh. We are trying to find out about these personalities so
we can Judge these things in the light of what they did, what they said, and
whether these are fulminations and ravings and rantings and nonsense. These
things come to our attention, Mrs. Voshinin, and we have to determine whether we
will undertake to run them down. The fact that they are rumors doesn't excuse us
from giving them consideration----
Mrs. VOSHININ. I realize that.
Mr. JENNER. As to whether there is any fact involved in this hearsay and
rumor----
Mrs. VOSHININ. I realize that.
Mr. JENNER. Even though you, as a dedicated and loyal American, you would
regard it as so ridiculous that it must be nonsense. That doesn't necessarily
mean that it is nonsense. And we have to exercise some judgment.
Now, I think I have pretty well completed my questioning of you. I would
like to make this inquiry of you, though, if you will permit.
Is there anything that's occurred to you that you think might be helpful
to the Commission in its investigation? It might be a source leading us to
something that might be helpful--that you would like to suggest to us? People
who might know, incidents that occurred that I haven't been able to stimulate
your recollection on? Anything at all that you think might be helpful in the
investigation of the matter of the assassination of the President, John F.
Kennedy?
Mr. VOSHININ. I can't think of anything. No.
Mr. JENNER. You don't think
of anything?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. I can't
think of anything--people that might be useful.
Mr. JENNER. Well, people or incidents or anything occurred during all
this period that you've been covering that you think might be helpful? It might
be somebody different from the De Mohrenschildts or it might be an incident that
occurred.
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Pausing before reply.] You know, I heard the rumors
that--like everybody else heard--which you have heard definitely--but I don't
know anybody whom to trace those rumors to you know.
That's the trouble. I don't
know any particular person who could throw any light on that thing.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; all right. We have occasionally been off the record and
had some discussion during the course of this examination, is there anything
that you reported to me or we discussed in the off-the-record discussions that
you believe is pertinent to the investigation or to your testimony, which I
failed to bring out?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I think
that we covered the ground pretty thoroughly.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything that took place in those discussions that
you would regard as, in any degree, inconsistent with any of your testimony,
which I, in turn, failed to bring out?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't quite understand that question.
Mr. JENNER. Well, what I'm getting at is this: Is there anything in the
discussions which we had off the record while you were in this room that you
think was inconsistent with your testimony as I brought it out that ought to be
on the record?
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Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't
remember very well what was off the record and what was on.
But I don't think so. I think
everything was on.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You think I have brought out everything?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Everything; yes; I do.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Now, Mrs. Voshinin, you have the privilege and possibly I should also say
the right--I must say the right--to read over your deposition when It has been
transcribed by the reporter--which we hope will be next week. Either I will be
here or other representatives of the Commission will be in
Mrs VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then perhaps, in reading it, other things may occur to
you or the transcription may not be as you recall you said something, and you
will want to make some change. And you may have a copy of your deposition by
arrangement with this young lady, who will afford you and your husband a copy of
Your respective depositions at whatever her regular rates are.
Mrs. VOSHININ. All right.
Mr. JENNER. And you may purchase one. Your husband, I should say,
expressed a desire to have his and put it in the safety deposit box [laughter].
Mrs. VOSHININ. A historical document.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Voshinin,
thank you so much. I hope you didn't think I was probing into your personal
affairs or pressuring you too severely.
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; not at all.
Mr. DAVIS. And I enjoyed your accent immensely. It has brought back very
wonderful memories for me.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Thank you.