ADRIAN
ALBA VOLUME X
TESTIMONY
OF ADRIAN THOMAS ALBA
The testimony of Adrian Thomas Alba was taken on April 6, 1964, at the
A witness, having been duly sworn by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler to testify
the truth, the whole, truth, and nothing but the truth, so help him God,
testified as follows:
Mr. LIEBELER. Alba, my name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the
legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of
President Kennedy. The Commission has authorized staff members to take the
testimony of witnesses pursuant to authority granted to it by Executive Order
11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.
I understand that Mr. Rankin wrote to you last week and told you that I
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would
be in touch with you concerning the taking of your testimony and that he
enclosed with his letter a copy of the Executive order and the resolution
referred to, together with a copy of the Commission's rules of procedure
governing the taking of the testimony by the Commission?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. We want to inquire of you concerning any knowledge you
might have of Lee Harvey Oswald which you might have gained as a result
of, as we understand it, his habit or practice of coming into your garage, which
is, we understand, located right next door to the Reily Company on Magazine
Street, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Before we go into detail, will you state your full name for
the record?
Mr. ALBA. Adrian Thomas Alba.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you born?
Mr. ALBA. In
Mr. LIEBELER. When?
Mr. ALBA. January 20, 1931.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is your employment at the present time?
Mr. ALBA.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you owner of the garage?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, part owner.
Mr. LIEBELER. I beg your pardon?
Mr. ALBA. I am an officer in the garage.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you regularly located at the garage itself? Do you work
out of the garage?
Mr. ALBA. No, right there.
Mr. LIEBELER Right there?
Mr. ALBA. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is the nature of the garage?
Mr. ALBA. Auto storage garage primarily.
Mr. LIEBELER. The address of the garage is
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is right next door to the William B. Reily Coffee Co.?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever become acquainted with or observe in your
garage Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. ALBA. Through conversations and Outdoor Life magazines in the
office--I have a coffee pot there, and a coffee table, and some chairs, and a
magazine rack, where he frequented the magazines quite often and drank coffee.
And I have a coke machine there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did this fellow, did you tell us what his name was?
Mr. ALBA. All I knew him was as "Lee."
Mr. LIEBELER. Just Lee?
Mr. ALBA. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. I understand that you are a gun enthusiast, is that
correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that you kept in your office in the garage various
magazines relating to outdoor life and guns?
Mr. ALBA Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever discuss
guns with you?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us what he said, and what you said on the
subject?
Mr. ALBA. He pursued the issue of ordering
guns, and how many guns had I ever ordered, and how long did it take to
get them, and where had I ordered guns from----
Mr. LIEBELER. Go ahead. What did you tell
him? Just tell us the conversation that you had with him.
Mr. ALBA. I told him that I had a gun on order at the present time, a
U.S. .30- caliber carbine, and he asked had I received the gun, on several
occasions, after that. "I told
him no that I hadn't. And he asked me would I consider selling him the
gun if and when I got it. I told him no.
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Mr. LIEBELER. Was there
anything peculiar about this particular rifle that made Oswald want it? Or why
did he want you to sell this rifle? Do you know?
Mr. ALBA. He told me he had a couple of guns, and he would like to have
the carbine. He was familiar with the carbine from the service, I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER. And this was the regular M-1 carbine?
Mr. ALBA. Regular M-1 carbine, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. From whom had you ordered that carbine? Do you recall?
Mr. ALBA. Through the National Rifle Association.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald indicate to you what other kind of rifle or
weapons that he had?
Mr. ALBA. No; he didn't. He did make a remark that he had--I think he
said he had several rifles and, several pistols, but he did not go into the
nature of the arms, or how much, or what they were.
Mr. LIEBELER.
Did he ever express any interest in any rifle that you indicated that you had,
other than this M-1 carbine that you told him you had ordered?
Mr. ALBA. One 30.06
Springfield rifle that I had.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have that?
Mr. ALBA. I was in the process of sporterizing that at the garage at the
time----
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say about that particular weapon?
Mr. ALBA. He said what was it worth to me, and I told him it was worth
over $100 to me.
There was no followup on that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was this particular rifle that you have referred to, a
Japanese rifle?
Mr. ALBA. No it wasn't. I had
a Japanese rifle down there that was not for sale, an he was more partial to the
Japanese rifle than the
Mr. LIEBELER. He was really
interested----
Mr. ALBA. He was more interested in the
Japanese rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. Had you already sporterized
that?
Mr. ALBA. That was completely sporterized.
Mr. LIEBELER . What do you do to a rifle when you sporterize
it?
Mr. ALBA. Alter the stock, eliminate some of the weight, and the length
of the stock, because it is a military piece to start with, and you glass-bead
the stock.
Mr. LIEBELER. And what does
that mean?
Mr. ALBA. To accurize the stock, and you put this where you have all
metal to wood contact in the stock. It is referred to as accurizing, and
sporterizing, and customizing a piece.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did Oswald say
about this particular Japanese rifle?
Mr. ALBA. Nothing other than
his desire to possess the gun, or to
purchase the gun from me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recall being interviewed by an agent of the FBI?
Mr. ALBA. Yes; I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many times were you interviewed by the FBI?
Mr. ALBA Twice, I believe. Let me retract that--the FBI came to the
office, I think, three different times. I was never up in their office or
contacted----
Mr. LIEBELER Did you discuss this Japanese
rifle with them?
Mr. ALBA. Yes; I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. And do you recall telling them that Oswald was interested
in the number of inches that had been
cut from the barrel of the gun?
Mr. ALBA. I believe I did;
yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recall what Oswald said, about that?
Mr. ALBA. No; not other than a general
discussion of the trajectory and
the feet per second, and et cetera, and the general accuracy
elimination--I mean elimination of the accuracy of the gun cutting
the barrel off.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is the effect of cutting the barrel?
Mr. ALBA. On the accuracy of a rifle; none.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell Oswald that?
Mr. ALBA. I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he seem surprised?
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Mr. ALBA. Not that my memory would--if my memory would serve me
correctly; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he seem to have a fairly good knowledge of a rifle?
Mr. ALBA. He did of the military pieces, the M-1 and the Garand. He was
asking questions about the Japanese rifle and the
Mr. LIEBELER. You just mentioned two different rifles, or three
different rifles that he showed a real familiarity with?
Mr. ALBA. Two.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was the straight M-1 gas-operated
rifle that has been used by the military
services?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the other was the
Mr. ALBA. No, no; the other was the Garand
M-1. The Garand M-1 and you have the
M-l carbine. Both are gas-operated.
Mr. LIEBELER. Those are the only two weapons that he showed
any particular or real familiarity with, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA . That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER . Did he tell you how he became familiar with these?
Mr. ALBA. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever
give it any thought as to how he became familiar with these weapons?
Mr. ALBA. Yes; I did. I assumed that was through the Armed
Forces training.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever tell you anything about that?
Mr. ALBA. No; he hadn't,
other than he had the service behind him.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't tell you what branch of the service he had been
in?
Mr. ALBA. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Japanese rifle that you said you had completely
sporterized, can you tell us approximately how long that weapon would be when it
is put together?
Mr. ALBA. Prior to sporterizing or after sporterizing?
Mr. LIEBELER. Both?
Mr. ALBA. I took
approximately 4 to 4 1/2 inches off of the barrel, and I think it was left with
a 22 1/2-inch barrel, and it had approximately a 28- or a 29- inch barrel to
start off with.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you fasten the barrel to the stock, can you tell us
approximately how long that rifle would be?
Mr. ALBA. I can take a
guess--I never really measured it, or any of my pieces, for that matter, but I
would say approximately 55 inches.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can these rifles be readily broken down, taking the stock
and removing it from the barrel?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long would the stock be separate from the barrel in
this Japanese rifle?
Mr. ALBA. From the butt of the stock to the extreme end of the forearm
would be approximately 20 inches, I imagine, or about 2 feet.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you say that the barrel was 22 inches long, do you
mean that the entire length of the action and the barrel?
Mr. ALBA. The barrel only, from the breech to the muzzle.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how long is the action?
Mr. ALBA. About 6 inches, 5 or 6 inches. You are asking me questions now
that I have never pursued before for my own information and satisfaction. These
are only approximate guesses.
Mr. LIEBELER. So the effect of sporterizing a rifle generally is to
shorten overall length of the rifle, is that not right, by removing a portion of
the barrel itself?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct,
and the weight.
Mr. LIEBELER. In addition to shortening the overall length of the rifle,
also when you sporterize a rifle you shorten the stock itself so that when you
break the rifle down into two pieces, the action and the barrel is one piece,
and the
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stock
the other piece, and the length of the rifle broken down, or the two pieces laid
together, would be less also, isn't that correct?
Mr. ALBA. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because of the tendency to shorten the stock?
Mr. ALBA. But that is not the main motive behind it----
Mr. LIEBELER. No; the motive behind it is to reduce the weight of the
rifle?
Mr. ALBA. The weight; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald indicate to you whether the weapons that he had
or weapon was a military piece, or whether it had been sporterized, or anything
about it?
Mr. ALBA. If my memory serves me, he told me he had a few rifles and a
few pistols, and never pursued the issue any further to name what they were or
what they weren't. I 'don't know whether it is an assumption on my part or not,
and if I am not mistaken he said they were military arms.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't indicate whether he sporterized them or not?
Mr. ALBA. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he display familiarity with the whole proposition of
sporterizing a rifle?
Mr. ALBA. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he display, or did you draw any conclusions as to
whether he was familiar with this process or not?
Mr. ALBA. No. And yes; I would say that I had drawn an opinion that he
was not familiar with the sporterizing of arms.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember any other
conversations that you and Oswald had about rifles or weapons?
Mr. ALBA. None other than he asking permission to borrow some magazines
from time to time. And as far as I knew, they were all returned.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of magazines were these?
Mr. ALBA. Outdoor Life and Field and Stream, Argosy, and hunting and
fishing magazines, and National Rifle Association magazines.
And guns and ammo magazines.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever have discussions with
you about the relative merits of a small calibre as opposed to large calibre
bullets?
Mr. ALBA. None.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are very clear about that in your mind?
Mr. ALBA. We discussed the wounding effect of combat guns of the small
calibre versus the large calibres, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was that discussion?
Mr. ALBA. Well, the small calibre in the field would tend to disable a
man and require two men to cart him off, versus the larger calibre which would
knock out a man permanently.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am looking at an FBI report which indicates that on
November 25, 1963, you were interviewed by two agents of the FBI, Mr. Lester G.
Davis, and John William Miller.
Mr. ALBA. I remember that.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the report indicates that you recalled an additional
conversation that you had with Oswald in which you and Oswald discussed the
merits of small calibres and larger calibre bullets, and the report said that
you recall that Oswald mentioned that a small calibre bullet was more deadly
than the larger one, to which point you agreed.
Mr. ALBA. Having been left with a wounding effect you would survive a
larger calibre wound, your chances of survival from a larger or large calibre
wound would be greater than the smaller calibre. We went into the discussion of
basing the thing in the ice pick versus the bread knife--I don't think I
mentioned this part to the FBI--reflecting-on the whole picture that you would
be better off receiving a wound from a 10-inch bread knife than you would be
being gigged once with a 2- or 3-inch ice pick, and that reflecting the
difference between the large calibre wound and the small calibre wound.
Mr. LIEBELER. What led you and Oswald to agree that you would be better
off being hit with a bread knife than with the ice pick?
Mr. ALBA. Internal bleeding.
Mr. LIEBELER. There would be more internal bleeding from the ice pick?
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Mr. ALBA. Small calibre or the ice pick; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that you
both agreed that the small calibre bullet would be more deadly than the larger
one?
Mr. ALBA. Being left with a wounded effect; in other words, if it was my
intention to destroy an animal I would prefer the large calibre, but if an
animal was wounded with a large calibre, or a small calibre bullet, I would
say that the smaller calibre bullet would be more deadly in the end than
the large calibre wound, and he might survive the large calibre with an open
wound.
Mr. LIEBELER. During the course of this conversation, did Oswald indicate
in anyway whether the rifles that he had were large calibre or small calibre
weapons?
Mr. ALBA. None other than the weapons were of the military, and I don't
know--that part is an assumption on my
part or whether he actually said
it. He went to no length at all in
discussing his firearms. In fact, it was my experience with Lee Oswald that you
had to ask Lee Oswald questions. Either Lee Oswald was talking to you, or he
wasn't talking at all. And I may have asked him what he had in the way of
firearms.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention that he had a pistol, or pistols?
Mr. ALBA. If I remember correctly, I think he said he had a few, or a
couple, or two. I am not definite .
Mr. LIEBELER. A couple of pistols?
Mr. ALBA. Pistol--he said he had a few rifles, and a few pistols--or it
was a couple, or it was two. I am not clear.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were discussing this question of whether or not Oswald
had any pistols with the FBI, and do you remember discussing it?
Mr. ALBA. If I made any mention of it, I am sure it would be as I have
just represented it to be. I have no recollection of my definite
discussions with the FBI at the time. I do remember, however, meeting the
gentlemen and discussing Lee Oswald with them.
Mr. LIEBELER.
Do you remember whether Oswald seemed more interested or was disposed
more in favor of rifles than pistols? Or did he seem----
Mr. ALBA. Very definitely toward the rifle side.
Mr. LIEBELER . He was more interested in rifles?
Mr. ALBA. Very little interested in the pistols. I had as many as three
or--I think at one time four pistols down there, and
Lee Oswald was very, very keen toward the rifles that were among my
sporterizing projects, and so on; other than the pistols, he had very, very
little interest in the pistols.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you do the sporterizing work on these weapons right
there in your garage?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
And what I didn't do, I job out, that is, I gave out to gunsmiths.
Mr. LIEBELER. To what?
Mr. ALBA. To a gunsmith.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever tell you that he
had fired these rifles or this rifle that
he owned?
Mr. ALBA. None other than to ask me if I knew of a place where you could
discharge firearms, that is, close by, without getting in the car and riding for
hours.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you
say when he asked you about that?
Mr. ALBA . My reply was that I joined the National Rifle Association, and
I have been able to shoot on the rifle range. It had been some years since I had
done any shooting along the River Road or the levy, or anything else like that,
and that I am sure that if you attempt that
today, they either would run you off or arrest you for discharging firearms.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you mention specifically a rifle range where you had
discharged your firearms?
Mr. ALBA I
believe I did, and I am sure that if I did I told him that he would have to be a
member in order to be able to use the range.
Mr. LIEBELER. What range was it?
Mr. ALBA. Crescent Gun,
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Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever indicate an intention to join the National
Rifle Association?
Mr. ALBA. None.
Mr. LIEBELER. In connection with this carbine
that you had ordered from the National Rifle Association, you indicated that he
had expressed an interest in buying that weapon from you?
Is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. He had an interest very much, and after I told him that I
wouldn't sell the gun, and I had mentioned that I was getting the gun for
approximately $35 through the N.R.A. and that this same gun on the market would
sell from $75 to $100, and he had made the expression that if and when "you
get the carbine, should you decide to sell it, I would make it worthwhile for
you to sell the gun."
Mr. LIEBELER. But he never spoke of joining the N.R.A. in order to obtain
a carbine such as this himself?
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you how much it cost to join the National Rifle
Association?
Mr. ALBA. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't tell him?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much does it cost?
Mr. ALBA. $5.
Mr. LIEBELER $5?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you go through these various gun magazines and sporting
magazines that Oswald had looked at? You went through them after the
assassination, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. Had I gone through these magazines that Lee Oswald had borrowed
from me?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. ALBA. And had I gone through them since the assassination?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. ALBA. Since the assassination the FBI and
the secret service took the magazines off, and I have not received them since.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you had read these magazines or gone through them prior
to the time that Oswald looked at them?
Mr. ALBA. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then you left them in your office and Oswald borrowed some
and brought them back?
Mr. ALBA. Well, we have a coffee urn and a coke machine and some chairs
in there, and a coffee table, and on the coffee table I would say that I had
approximately anywhere from 80 to 120 magazines.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't go through them after the assassination and
prior to the time that the FBI and the Secret Service removed them from your
office?
Mr. ALBA. Would you repeat the----
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't go through any of these magazines that Oswald
had looked at after the assassination and prior to the time that the FBI and the
Secret Service had removed them from your office, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. None other than my most current issues that I had recently
received in the mail, such as the National Rifle magazine or "Guns and
Ammo" edition----
Mr. LIEBELER. Those magazines wouldn't have been at Lee Oswald's disposal
because they would have come in after the time he had been there?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell whether or not the magazine that Oswald read,
or borrowed and read and returned, were still there in the garage at the time of
the assassination, or at the time the FBI came and took the magazines from you?
Mr. ALBA. Lee Oswald borrowed the magazines and requested permission to
take one or two off at a time, and kept them anywhere from 3 days to a week, and
would make the point of letting me know that he was returning them.
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And
then a few days later he would ask that he borrow another magazine or two
magazines. I would say that there were anywhere from three to five definite
occasions I do remember of Lee Oswald asking to take this and that magazine and
letting me know that he returned the magazines.
Mr. LIEBELER. So as far as you know there was nobody else that would have
removed them from your office, and they would have stayed there after Oswald
brought them back?
Mr. ALBA. Some of them do disappear from time to time.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you have no way of knowing whether all the ones that
Oswald looked at were in your office when the FBI and the Secret Service came
and picked them up?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. When was the last time you saw Oswald?
Mr. ALBA . The last time I saw Lee Oswald was when he told me that he was
leaving for Michoud. He had put in an application at Michoud, where he was going
to make the big money, in this town here. He mentioned that prior or about 3
weeks prior to leaving.
When he did leave, he came in the office and he says, "Well--"
this was approximately 10 o'clock in the morning, he said, "Well, I will be
seeing you." I said, "Where are you headed?" He said, "Out
there, where the gold is." I said, "Where is that?" He said,
"I told you I was going out to Michoud, and that I had an application out
there." He said, "Well, I have heard from them, and I have just wound
up things next door at the coffee company, and I am on my way out there
now." That again, was approximately--I may stand to be corrected on my
timing--but that was approximately some weeks before the assassination.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is this "Michoud" that he mentioned to you?
How do you spell it?
Mr. ALBA. That's the national air space program, the rockets, out in
Gentilly. That's NASA.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of an operation do they have there? Is it a
manufacturing operation?
Mr. ALBA. It is the rocket, the Atlas rocket, I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER. They construct them there, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you what kind of work he was going to do for
the organization?
Mr. ALBA . No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned "Michoud," and is that the name of
a city here?
Mr. ALBA. Michoud, that's this particular section of Gentilly, Gentilly
section, where the plant is located.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that part of
Mr. ALBA. It is part of
Mr. LIEBELER. Part of
Mr. ALBA. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald tell you what kind of
work he was doing for Reily Co.?
Mr. ALBA I don't think he ever did, but it was--it was obvious that he
was in the electrical end of the maintenance end of the factory at W. B. Reily
Coffee.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say? Or why do you say it was obvious?
Mr. ALBA. He was just like the others there in the maintenance and the
electrical end, and they would wear the electrician's belt with a bandoleer
screwdriver, pliers, and friction tape, et cetera.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he wear that?
Mr. ALBA Yes, he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss this fellow
Oswald with anybody at the Reily Co.?
Mr. ALBA. Not prior to the assassination, no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you discussed it with people at the Reily Co. after
the assassination?
Mr. ALBA. Yes, I have. People
were coming up to me at that time and asking me about what had happened to my
friend Lee Oswald that used to hang around the office all he time, as an opening
to discuss what had taken place in Dallas.
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Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember the name of the people at the coffee
company that you discussed Oswald with?
Mr. ALBA. The people in general that would come in the office during the
day, as Lee Oswald himself would do.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the people that did come in that way indicate they also
had known Oswald while he worked at the coffee company?
Mr. ALBA. I hadn't realized anyone that knew Lee Oswald, or that that was
the man who worked with them prior to the assassination, but after the
assassination, which might be expected, it seems that anyone you would talk to
knew who he was and had seen him, and so forth.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember any particular people who did, in fact,
seem to know him, or that you think did know him that you talked to about him?
Mr. ALBA. None in particular,
no.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was the general substance
of these conversations?
Mr. ALBA. Half kidding and half general conversations about, "Isn't
it something, what happened?" And that it happened to be someone that was
right here at work "With us at Reily, and that you knew from over here,
next door."
Several people, employees at Reily, would tell me that employees at Reily
had told them after the assassination, of course, that Lee Oswald spent as much
time "Over at Alba's Garage as he did over here in the plant."
Mr. LIEBELER. Did that seem to be the case to you prior to the
assassination?
Mr. ALBA. Yes and no; if that is any kind of an answer. Lee Oswald was
sent for and called from the office on several occasions.
Lee Oswald would come to the office, put a nickel in the coke machine and
start paging through magazines and just lost track of time.
Lee Oswald was not talkative unless he was more or less pursuing the
conversation himself. In fact, if that makes any sense to you----
Mr. LIEBELER. So it seems to you then that he
spent more time in your place than he should have been spending, is that
correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct, but certainly not more time at my place than
at Reily Coffee, as some might have tried to indicate to me in a conversation.
But I am sure that it was intended only as a phrase of kidding.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear of complaints from the coffee company
that Oswald wasn't on the job over there?
Mr. ALBA. None other than from the men themselves that were working with
Lee Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. You heard these complaints after the assassination, is that
correct, didn't you?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. You said that he was called from your garage to go back to
the coffee company from time to time?
Mr. ALBA. There were anywhere from two to four different occasions that I
can remember that someone would come in there and tell him, "Now, Lee
Oswald, they are looking for you over there. If you keep this up, you are going
to get canned." And Oswald would say, "I'm coming. I'm coming."
Mr. LIEBELER. And then he would go back to the coffee company?
Mr. ALBA. He would.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did this fellow impress you?
Mr. ALBA . He certainly didn't impress me as anyone capable or anyone
burdened with a charge of assassinating the President of the
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he strike you as being peculiar in any way?
Mr. ALBA. Yes; he did. He was quiet.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was quiet?
Mr. ALBA. He was quiet. You could ask Lee Oswald two or three questions,
and if Lee Oswald wasn't apparently
interested in the course of the conversation, he would just remain paging
through the book and look up and say, "Did
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you
say something to me?" I hesitate putting the conversation back to Lee
Oswald pursuing it first, but all you had to do was mention guns and gun
magazines and Lee Oswald was very free with the conversation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he seem to have an interest in
firearms that was abnormal or extremely great, or anything like that?
Mr. ALBA. None.
Mr. LIEBELER. Other than the fact that he was quiet, was there anything
about him that struck you as being odd or peculiar?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't suspect he was a violent kind of person, or
anything like that, the time that you knew him, did you?
Mr. ALBA. I would answer that indeed not. I had never gotten the
impression from Lee Oswald that he was capable of any plot or assassination, or
what have you, of that nature.
Mr. LIEBELER. And were you surprised when you heard he had been arrested
in connection with the assassination?
Mr. ALBA. I was very much surprised.
Mr. LIEBELER. After you heard he had been charged with the assassination,
did it seem to you then that he could have been capable of such a thing? Or did
you hold to your former opinion?
Mr. ALBA. I think I held to my former opinion. Things I have seen on
television, of course, and read in the newspapers, and so forth, has laid out
some suggestive pattern that Lee Oswald was a subversive, et cetera, toward the
country, and maybe even the President, or something; but prior to that
assassination he gave me no indication at anytime that he was burdened with such
a charge, or that he was concerned or involved with anything of that nature. He
had never at anytime spoken against the President or the country. He had never
at anytime, prior to the assassination, of course, mentioned communism to me, or
anything suggestive or leading to it, or otherwise.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember whether he mentioned the President at all,
one way or another?
Mr. ALBA. I think I might answer that with a definite answer--I can't
remember anytime that Lee Oswald had ever mentioned the President, the country,
foreign countries, et cetera.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is
it customary, or the usual sort of thing for people in this area to discuss
politics, or discuss the President? People that come into your garage or----
Mr. ALBA. Well, the usual trend of conversation in the garage, other than
the garage business or the personal customers' cars or neighbors that walk in
the garage that want change for the coke machine, et cetera, would be either
politics---I would say mostly politics more than anything else.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was the attitude of most of the men toward President
Kennedy? Was he well liked down here, or was he not highly thought of?
Mr. ALBA. He was very highly thought of for his convictions, for his
stand on his convictions, but he wasn't too well thought of for his stand on the
integration program to the South.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it common for the people to complain about that sort of
thing?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you never
heard Oswald discuss that?
Mr. ALBA. Not once.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was he ever present when the subject was discussed by
others, as far as you can recall?
Mr. ALBA. I really wouldn't know, or be able to comment whether he was or
not. It's very possible that he was, and maybe on several occasions, but not to
my recollection.
Mr. LIEBELER. He never responded in any way?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am going to show you some pictures that have been marked
in other proceedings, five different pictures marked "Commission Exhibits
451, and 453 through 456," and ask you if you recognize the person or
persons depicted in these pictures?
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(Photographs shown to the witness.)
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another picture marked "Pizzo Exhibit
453-A," and ask you if you recognize any of the people on that picture?
Mr. ALBA. Lee Oswald only. [Viewing photograph.]
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one is he?
Mr. ALBA. Right here [indicating], and this looks like Jack Ruby
[indicating], but I would only recognize him from the television pictures and
pictures in the papers.
Mr LIEBELER. The picture that you indicated as being Oswald is the man
marked with an "X" over his head, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another picture which has been marked "Pizzo
Exhibit 453-B," and ask you if you recognize anybody in that picture?
Mr. ALBA. Lee Oswald only. [Viewing photograph.]
Mr. LIEBELER And that is the man marked with a "green mark," is
that correct?
Mr. ALBA. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize the street scene, by any chance?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another picture marked "Pizzo Exhibit
453-C," and ask you if you recognize that man?
Mr. ALBA . That's Lee Harvey Oswald. [Viewing photograph.]
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have anything else that you think that the
Commission would be interested in that I haven't asked you about, concerning
your knowledge of Oswald, and your relations with him?
Mr. ALBA. I wouldn't think. The source of conversations was of a nature
of a neighborhood acquaintanceship, nothing more. He has never been Suggestive
toward any other things other than what I have already discussed with you, as
far as his interest in guns and gun magazines and gun conversations.
Mr. LIEBELER. He never indicated any interest in
Mr. ALBA. Never.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know that he had been arrested by the New Orleans
Police Department in connection with the distribution of "Fair Play for
Mr. ALBA. No; I hadn't, but I found out after the assassination.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know that he appeared on WDSU television and
debated with some Cubans? You don't know that?
Mr. ALBA. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. If you can't think of anything else, anything else you
would like to add at this point, I have no further questions.
Mr. ALBA. I would feel free if there was, but I don't think there is
anything further that I would like to add that can be of any help to you.
Mr. LIEBELER. In view of that, on behalf of the Commission I want to
thank you very much for the cooperation you have shown.
Thank you very much.
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