FBI INTIMIDATION
FROM THE NEWSGROUPS
Time to repost this updated classic... First, a recap: I mentioned the FBI
intimidation that occurred for so many of the eyewitnesses, and Toddy demanded
some examples... so I was happy to oblige. Toddy then claimed that he could
demolish all these examples, but his refutations were all in a file cabinet that
was in storage.
Of course, this was years ago, and still no refutation.
Toddy *asked* for this post. Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
Toddy simply lied. First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps telling everyone that
he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'. Of course, he never will.
Although Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time, others have
too, Eddie "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler, to name just
two. Other LNT'ers are too smart to get close to this post.
All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
********************************
Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their eyes,
and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't refute
it.
Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
********************************
Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that there were
only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hear, it's
amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that their
affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing that as
much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
********************************
But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accounts to
the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
Courthouse building. He testified:
Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: Were you threatened in any way --
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by someone
who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversation, I
will permit that.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir.
Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harvey
Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness it.'" I
said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey Oswald
was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.' And
(one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I
saw, he told me what I saw."
But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this.
After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to the
case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ... one
that he won't address.
Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have seen
two men with a rifle behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll, stated that
he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitness to
a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, FBI
agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, tried
accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
"clearly abuse of a witness."
Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was shocked
at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly not
the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a couple
of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure him to
sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassination"
and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding this up,"
and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986, "...I
typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all
stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the
protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot
is fired."
If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or respect
those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. David
Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd been
"pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the WC would
have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony was
never put in the record.
(Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make when I
mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just one of
the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by anyone
prior to the WCR being released?
Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Altgen's
photo, and see him for themselves."
Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this isn't
covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has recorded
as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. Tomlinson
noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told the
truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teacher. My
principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and I just
can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know it's
all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about it
anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to continue to
teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about the case
anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us that
there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
Another good example is also given by Mark Lane, the curious incident of Mrs.
Tice - and considering that the Warren Commission flatly lied about her
testimony, it's quite interesting indeed: "Mrs. Tice told the FBI that she had
been visited by a man who claimed to be a reporter and who asked her to repeat
the story about seeing Ruby at Parkland Hospital which she had previously told
to Ruby's sister. After Mrs. Tice related the incident to him, the man advised
her 'not to talk about this'. Shortly before her WC testimony, Mrs. Tice
received the following anonymous phone call:
Tice: Hello.
Male Caller: Mrs. Tice?
Tice: Hello.
Male Caller: It would pay you to keep your mouth shut.
(Rush to Judgment, pg 273)
Another example given by Mark Lane is eyewitness Jean Hill:
"Jean hill said that after she had originally spoken with me in February 1964
'the FBI was here for days. They practically lived here. They just didn't like
what I told them I saw and heard when the President was assassinated.' She
declined to permit a filmed interview, stating, 'For two years I have told the
truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teacher. My
principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and I just
can't got through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know it's
all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about it
anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to continue to
teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward, but I cannot talk about the
case anymore." (Rush to Judgment, pg 285)
In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with
O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence
behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not
what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told
the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and
that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me
to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family." But
nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing ever
happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
While I'm quite sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
Why... none at all.
Congratulations, Todd!
WITNESS TAMPERING
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From: garyag@ix.netcom.com(Gary Aguilar)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: I once believed in conspiracy, but no more - Ha! Ha! Ha!
Date: 8 Jan 1998 02:46:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Message-ID: <691emc$mad@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca21-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jan 07 8:46:36 PM CST 1998
No refrain around here is sillier and more amusing than the one some
loyalists chant like a mantra, "Once I, too was a skeptic. But now I'm
a believer, and I can help you, too."
What balderdash! Do these "born agains" now trust the dishonest FBI
evidence we have rentlessly learned not to trust, virtually since day
one? They often plead that the FBI did suppress evidence, but not to
conceal a public or private conspiracy, but only out of "simple
hubris." The "hubris defense" hardly explains the FBI's treatment of
witnesses and evidence.
Two witnesses claimed under oath to the Warren Commission that the FBI
had urged them to adjust their memories to implicate Oswald. [1]
JFK aide Kenny O'Donnell said much the same thing. [2]
The New York Times reported that private citizens and Dallas Police
officials stopped cooperating, after they were interviewed by the FBI.
[3]
Reader's Digest editor, Henry Hurt, reported, "An unofficial analysis
of Warren Commission documents showed that at least 60 witnesses
claimed that the FBI in some way altered what the witnesses had
reported." [4]
Seven hours after Jack Ruby murdered Oswald, FBI agent, James Hosty,
destroyed a note from Oswald. The FBI withheld the existence and
destruction of the note from the Warren Commission, and lied to the
HSCA 13 years later to cover it up. [5]
Hosty himself said in his book [5] that his own personnel file at the
FBI had been tampered with on JFK matters.
Former assistant FBI director, William Sullivan, reported that Hoover
advised his chief JFK investigator what conclusions he expected -
before the investigation had begun. [6]
The HSCA echoed this harsh judgment: "The FBI generally exhausted its
resources in confirming the case against Lee Harvey Oswald as the lone
assassin, a case that director J. Edgar Hoover, at least, seemed
determined to make within 24 hours of the assassination." [7]
Would it have been any more difficult for the FBI to prove the slain
Oswald guilty than it was for them to prove, as they did, that the
then-living Nixon was innocent of Watergate?
So the record reflects that Warren Commissioners have claimed the FBI
withheld important and relevant information from the Commission; FBI
agents have claimed the FBI destroyed evidence and falsified evidence;
witnesses have claimed the FBI forced dishonest admissions from them;
and Hoover decided Oswald acted alone within one hour of Oswald's
arrest, when he couldn't possibly have known. After that, field agents
were on notice to confirm the boss's amazing clarivoyance, according to
the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978.
The Warren Commission didn't investigate JFK's assassination, the FBI
did. Warren Commissioner Burt Griffin told the La Fontaines ("Oswald
Talked") that the FBI declined to pursue leads the Commission gave it.
The Commission didn't independently confirm the FBI's findings, for it
had no independent investigative staff. It was forced to rely on the
unreliable FBI, and so are the "born agains."
But only the "born agains" know that the FBI can be trusted. And
apparently they've learned it since the days they were critics and they
knew the FBI couldn't be trusted.
Wonder how they discovered that the FBI is reliable after all this
time? Certainly not from the Review Board releases. Perhaps an FBI
agent explained it to them!
Gary Aguilar
1. FBI attempted to get Oswald's Marine associate, Nelson Delgado, to
change his testimony. From Warren Commission testimony:
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you get the impression that the agent was
trying to get you to change your story?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was trying to get you to back away from the
proposition that Oswald understood Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, am I allowed to say what I want to say?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; I want you to say exactly what you want to
say.
Mr. DELGADO. I had the impression now, wholeheartedly, I want to
believe that Oswald did what he was supposed to have done, but I had
the impression they weren't satisfied with my testimony of him not
being an expert shot. His Spanish wasn't proficient where he would be
at a tie with the Cuban government.
Mr. LIEBELER. First of all, you say you got the impression that
the FBI agents that talked to you didn't like the statement that you
made about Oswald's inability to use the rifle well; is that right?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. (Sworn testimony of Nelson Delgado to the
Warren Commission. In:Warren Commission Vol. #8, p.249.)
The FBI also changed Delgado's statement that he'd seen Oswald travel
to Los Angeles only once, presumably to visit the Cuban consulate. The
FBI apparently wished create the false impression Oswald had traveled
to Los Angeles, and the consulate, often.
"Mr. LIEBELER. There are two of these FBI reports here that tell me
that you told the FBI that Oswald used to go to Los Angeles every 2
weeks.
Mr. DELGADO. I used to go to Los Angeles every other week.
Mr. LIEBELER. But not Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are sure that you told that to the FBI?
Mr. DELGADO. Positive.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have no question about that at all?
Mr. DELGADO. No question about that at all. Otherwise I wouldn't
have made the statement that he had been with me one time. It would
have been common to see him in the train station. But it wasn't.
(Sworn testimony of Nelson Delgado to the Warren Commission. In: Warren
Commission Vol. #8, p.259.)
WILBYRN WALDON (ROBERT) LITCHFIELD II called an acquaintance at the
Dallas Police Department to advise him he'd seen Oswald at Ruby's
Carousel Club about 5 weeks before the assassination. He was grilled by
the FBI, given a polygraph test, and backed away from his positive
identification, he testified to the Commission, because of a false
threat by the FBI. He was interviewed by the Warren Commission's Leon
D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel:
Mr. HUBERT. I gather that you were more positive of the identity of
Oswald as being the man in the Carousel on the occasion we have been
speaking about at one time about (when he originally reported it to the
Dallas Police Department) than you are now?
Mr. LITCHFIELD. I was; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What has caused your opinion in the matter to weaken?
Mr. LITCHFIELD. ...I said, "It sure as beck looks like him," and
when the police were questioning me, they said, "Are you positive, are
you positive, are you positive?"
I said, "It looks like him, it looks like him, it looks like
him." And they come back, "Are you positive, are you positive?" And
then the fact that when the Federal agents talked to me, they said,
"You know, if you say you are positive and it wasn't him," it's a
Federal charge, and I said, "Well, I'm not that positive. ... Well,
like I said, "It sure does look like him--the man I saw there sure does
look like Oswald," those are my words.
Mr. HUBERT. But, what has caused you to weaken in your opinion it
was Oswald, as you tell it to me, is the fact that you got the
impression that if you gave a positive identification and it proved to
be false, that it would be a Federal offense, is that correct?
Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes...." (Sworn testimony of W.W. Litchfield to
the Warren Commission. In: Warren Commission Vol. #14, p.107. Emphasis
added.)
2. Tip O'Neill (with William Novak). Man of the House: The Life and
Political Memoirs of Speaker Tip O'Neill. New York: Random House, 1987,
p.178. ("I (O'Neill) was never one of those people who had doubts or
suspicions about the Warren Commission's report on the president's
death. But five years after Jack died, I was having dinner with (JFK
aide) Kenny O'Donnell and a few other people at Jimmy's Harborside
Restaurant in Boston, and we got to talking about the assassination.
"I was surprised to hear O'Donnell say that he was sure he had heard
two shots that came from behind the fence.
"'That's not what you told the Warren Commission,' I said.
"'You're right,' he replied. 'I told the FBI what I had heard, but they
said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been
imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to … .'")
3. "Most private citizens who had cooperated with newsmen reporting the
crime have refused to give further help after being interviewed by
agents of the FBI. Dallas city and county police withdrew their help
the same way. One high officer said he wished he could answer questions
'because it would save us a lot of work.'" New York Times, 12/18/63, p.
18, column 4.
4. Hurt, Henry, Reasonable Doubt. New York: Henry Holt & Co., p. 26.
5. Hosty, James P., Assignment Oswald. New York: Arcade Publishing,
1996, p. 59. "(James Hosty's superior, FBI agent Gorden) Shanklin told
the HSCA he had never seen or known about the Oswald note until 1975.")
See also: Curt Gentry, J. Edgar Hoover: The Man and the Secrets. New
York: W.W. Norton & Co., 1991, p. 546. See also: La Fontaine, Ray &
Mary, Oswald Talked. Gretna, La.: Pelican Publishing Co., 1996, p. 18.
The HSCA said it "regarded the incident of the note as serious
impeachment of Shanklin's and Hosty's credibility,". (In: La Fontaine,
Ray and Mary, Oswald Talked, p. 308.)
6. William C. Sullivan. The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover's FBI.
New York: WW Norton & Co., 1979, p. 52. ("Hoover always had someone
else do his dirty work, so he appointed a friend of mine (Sullivan's),
Jim Gale, as assistant director to handle the (JFK assassination)
inspection. Gale, of course, was told beforehand by Hoover what kind of
a result to come up with even before he spoke with anyone or looked
into a single detail."
7. HSCA, Report, p. 128. In: Hurt, Henry, Reasonable Doubt. New York,
Henry Holt and Co., p. 27.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
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