GIVENS,
CHARLES Volume VI
TESTIMONY
OF CHARLES DOUGLAS GIVENS
The testimony of Charles Douglas Givens was taken at 9 a.m., on April 8,
1964, in the office of the
Mr.
BELIN. Would you stand and raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give, will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
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Mr. GIVENS. I do.
Mr. BELIN. What is your name, please?
Mr. GIVENS. Charles Douglas Givens.
Mr. BALL. Where do you live, Mr. Givens?
Mr. GIVENS. I live at
Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
Mr. GIVENS. 38.
Mr. BELIN. Married?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Family?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you born, Mr. Givens?
Mr. GIVENS.
Mr. BELIN. Have you lived in
Mr. GIVENS. All my life except I was in the Armed War II, in the Navy.
Mr. BELIN. How long were you in the Navy?
Mr. GIVENS. About 2 years.
Mr. BELIN. Let me backtrack a
little. Did you go to high school
before you went in the Navy?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. GIVENS. Twelfth grade.
Mr. BELIN. Did you get through the 12th?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You got up to the 12th grade?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I went to work.
Mr. BELIN. Doing what?
Mr. GIVENS. SMU.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon?
Mr. GIVENS. SMU.
Mr. BELIN. SMU?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do out there?
Mr. GIVENS. I worked in the kitchen.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay there?
Mr. GIVENS. Oh, about 2 years.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. I went in the service.
Mr. BELIN. You went in the service for a couple of years?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do with most of your time in the service?
Mr. GIVENS. I was in the Steward Mate Branch.
Mr. BELIN. Were you honorably discharged?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do when you got out of the service?
Mr. GIVENS. I went back to work.
Mr. BELIN. At SMU ?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. GIVENS. I worked at Central Lumber Co.
Mr. BELIN. Doing what there?
Mr. GIVENS. I was a truck helper; helper on the truck.
Mr. BELIN. You were helper on a truck?
Mr. GIVENS. Delivering lumber; yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you do that?
Mr. GIVENS. Oh, about a year and a half, I guess.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
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Mr. GIVENS. One time I got into a little difficulty. Got in a little
trouble.
Mr. BELIN. You got in a little trouble?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right, you were not working for a while?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how long was that?
Mr. GIVENS. About 13 months.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then, what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I came back and I worked for a construction company,
and then after that I got this job down here at the depository.
Mr. BELIN. At the School Book Depository?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Off and on about 6 years.
Mr. BELIN. Was there any period of time that you haven't worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What happened then?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I Just, you know, sometimes I had some days to layoff
during the slack season, like it is now, and when it' is rush season he calls
you back.
Mr. BELIN. So it was just a question of being laid off during the slack
season?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What do you do down there at the
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I filled orders and stacked books, and you know, don't have any
special job.
Mr. BELIN. On what floors do you generally work most of all?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I work on the first floor most of the time, like we
fill orders. We like work out of the stock downstairs. We go upstairs. We have
stock on three floors, fifth, sixth, and seventh.
Mr. BELIN. Well, do you fill orders for any particular publisher more
than another, so that you might be on the fifth floor, or the sixth floor more
than the seventh, or do you just spend as much time on any one of those top
floors as you do on any other top floor?
Mr. GIVENS. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Is that what you were doing on the 22d
of November 1963, also?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What were you doing on November 22?
Mr. GIVENS. We were fixing the floor, putting down some plywood on the
floor.
Mr. BELIN. What floor would this have been on?
Mr. GIVENS. Sixth.
Mr. BELIN. What part of the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. We were working. on the west end.
Mr. BELIN. All right, do you remember what time you got to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; I got to work around about a quarter to eight.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go when you got to work?
Mr. GIVENS. I went in a little lunchroom that we have downstairs.
Mr. BELIN. Is that what you call the domino room?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You carry your lunch with you?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You put your lunch there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hang up your coat in that room, too?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I knew of him.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever talked with him at all?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I talked to him once in a while. I mean, just like
about filling orders or something like that.
Sometimes I check and he was filling orders and he make a mistake, and I
call him and get the book right.
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Mr. BELIN. Do you remember
any conversation you ever had with him? What
you said and what he said?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, he was a fellow that kept pretty much to himself.
He never had too much to say.
Mr. BELIN. Did he ever say anything to you, what a nice day, or about his
family, or baseball, or anything?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Ever talk to you about any politics?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. When you talked to him about correcting an order, what did you say and
what did he say?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I just tell him he had the wrong book.
Mr. BELIN. What would he say?
Mr. GIVENS. He said, "Okay," and got the record.
Mr. BELIN. What did you call him, Lee or Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Called him Lee.
Mr. BELIN. What did he call you?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, he never called me anything. I never heard him call me
anything.
Mr.. BELIN. Did he make mistakes often?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, not too often.
Mr.
BELIN. When you got to work on the morning of November 22, did you see him at
all there or not?
Mr. GIVENS. 22d? That was on Friday, wasn't it?
Mr. BELIN. Friday; that is the day the President came by.
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, I saw him that day.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see him first?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I first saw him on the first floor.
Mr BELIN. About what time was that?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, about 8:30.
Mr. BELIN. Now, let me ask you this. You got to work at a quarter to 8?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. What did you do between a quarter of 8 and 8:30? Where were
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I went upstairs. We
went to work at 8 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him
come into the domino room at all?
Mr. GIVENS. Not that morning,
no, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. When did you leave the domino room to go up to the sixth
floor?
Mr. GIVENS. 8 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN.. At 8 o'clock?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. So you don't feel he came in the domino room before 8 o'clock?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; not that morning he didn't.
Mr. BELIN. How did you get up to the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. On the elevator.
Mr. BELIN. The east or the west one?
The west one is the one that would be nearest the railroad tracks, and
the east one would be nearer the
Mr. GIVENS. We went up on the east one.
Mr.
BELIN. Any particular reason why you took the east one rather than the west one?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I don't know whether you call it a particular reason, but on the
west, you have double gates on that.
Mr.
BELIN. Was the west elevator on the first floor when you took the east elevator
up?
Mr. GIVENS. It was that morning, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. It was that morning around 8 o'clock?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, where did you see him at 8:30 o'clock first?
Mr. GIVENS. I came back down to use the rest room.
Mr. BELIN. Where was he?
Mr.
GIVENS. He was over there in the bin filling orders.
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Mr. BELIN. He was over in the bin filling orders?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; they had some bins there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you talk to him at all?
Mr. GIVENS. No.
Mr. BELIN. Did you say hello, Lee?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I didn't say anything to him.
I just looked at him.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he was wearing?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I believe it was kind of a greenish looking shirt and pants was
about the same color as his shirt, practically the same thing he wore all the
time he worked there. He never
changed clothes the whole time he worked there, and he would wear a grey looking
jacket.
Mr. BELIN. All right. You saw him at 8:30 on the first floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, we went back upstairs and started to work.
Mr. BELIN. You went back up to the sixth floor to continue laying the
floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Next?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way
downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth
floor.
I
came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket
upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my
cigarettes in it. When I got back
upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. Coming from what way?
Mr. GIVENS. Toward the window up front where the shots were fired from.
Mr. BELIN. Just a second, where did you go?
Where were you when you saw him on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. I had went and got my jacket and was on my way back to the
elevator.
Mr. BELIN. All right, just a second.
I am going to get a plan of the sixth floor, if I have one, and try and
have you point that out to me.
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Well, I don't seem to have a sixth floor plan here, but perhaps we can
use another plan here to help us.
Here is a diagram of the front of the building. This is the
This perhaps would be a diagram of the third floor.
You notice that there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven sets of
windows, right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. On the
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You notice the two freight elevators toward the rear. Now did
you see--when you first saw him on the sixth floor there, were you standing near
any of these windows?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. I was
over here by the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing your finger to a spot which would be somewhat
to the east of the east elevator, is that correct?
Mr. GIVENS. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. At a spot which is
about on the same line as what I call the south side of the east elevator, and
about as far cast of the front part of that elevator as the distance from the
front of the elevator to the back of the east elevator, is that about as far
east of the front part of that elevator, is that about right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing
at that point, and where did you see Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well,
I was along here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. All right, you are
pointing at a spot you say along in here?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. That would be near
the east wall of the building?
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Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You can see a scale here that is from 0 to 20 feet.
Well, it would be about 30 to 40 feet north of the south wall of that
building, is that right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. And around 10 feet or so away from the east wall, is that about right?
Mr. GIVENS. That is about right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, did you
notice whether or not there were any cartons stacked up around the southeast
corner of that sixth floor?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I didn't pay any attention about any being stacked, because we had
taken all that stock from that side of the building and ran it down that side.
Mr.
BELIN. You had taken stock down from the west part of the sixth floor where you
were working and put it there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; ran it down the side right in front of the window.
Mr.
BELIN. Was he between that stock and the window, or was he on the other side of
the window?
Mr.
GIVENS. He was between the stock and the window, coming towards the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. Coming towards the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see all of his body or not?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; he had his clipboard in his hand.
Mr. BELIN. He had his clipboard in his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was that kind of an aisleway over
there right next to the east wall that he was walking along, or what?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; they have aisles.
Mr. BELIN. Now, was there stock in back of him as well as in front of
him?
Were
you there where you had stacked it up, or not, or don't you remember?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was already some books stacked there.
Mr.
BELIN. Were there books stacked between where you saw him and the window itself?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. All right, he was walking with his clipboard from that southeast corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see him walking?
What direction did you see him walking in?
Mr. GIVENS. He was coming towards the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. From the
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, Sir.
Mr. BELIN. So that would be walking in a northerly direction?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you said that he had a clipboard in his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; he had his board with his orders on it.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see the orders on the board?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, yes, sir; he had it in his hand.
Mr. BELIN. Did he have any books in his hand that he was carrying?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever fill orders in November on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether or not there were any books or book
cartons over in that corner from which he might have been filling orders?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, yes, sir; it was possible.
Mr. BELIN. It was possible?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you watch where he walked to?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I didn't pay much attention.
I was getting ready on the elevator, and I say, "Boy, are you going
downstairs?"
Mr. BELIN. What did he say to you?
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Mr. GIVENS. I say, "It's
near lunch time."
He said, "No, sir. When
you get downstairs, dose the gate to the elevator." That meant the elevator
on the west side, you can pull both gates down and it will come up by itself.
Mr. BELIN. What else did he say?
Mr. GIVENS. That is all.
Mr.
BELIN. What did you say to that? Did you Say you would close the elevator gate,
or not say anything?
Mr. GIVENS. I said, "Okay," and got on the elevator.
Mr. BELIN. What elevator did you take down?
Mr. GIVENS. I taken this one.
Mr. BELIN. The east elevator?
Mr. GIVENS. The east elevator.
Mr.
BELIN. Do you know whether or not when you got down to the first floor, the west
elevator was there?
Mr.
GIVENS. No, sir; it wasn't, because I looked over there to close the gate and it
wasn't there.
Mr. BELIN. It wasn't there when you got down to the first floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; it wasn't.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know where it was?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. What time was
this?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I would say it was about 5 minutes to 12, then because
it was---
Mr. BELIN. Now what did you
do when you got down there on the first floor?
Mr. GIVENS. When I got down to the first floor Harold Norman, James
Jarman and myself, we stood over by the window, and then we said we was going
outside and watch the parade, so we walked out and we stood there a while, and
then I said, "I believe I will walk up to the parking lot."
I had a friend that worked on the parking lot, right on Elm and Record.
Mr. BELIN. Elm and Record Streets?
Mr. GIVENS. Elm and Record Streets; yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. That would be one block to the east of the corner of Elm and
Mr. GIVENS. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then, what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. I stood around over there and went up on the corner.
Mr. BELIN. What corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Up on
Mr. BELIN. Who else was there with you that you knew?
Mr. GIVENS. James and Edward Shields.
Mr. BELIN. Is that the same person, James Edward?
Mr. GIVENS. Edward Shields and James.
Mr. BELIN. Two other people?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. You watched the motorcade together?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after you watched the motorcade?
Mr. GIVENS. We turned and started back down to the parking lot.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. Then when we heard the shots, by the time we got along in
sight across in front of the
Mr.
BELIN. I want to backtrack a minute before we come to the shots. When did you
eat lunch?
Mr.
GIVENS. When did I eat lunch? I ate
lunch after. Lets see, no; I ate
lunch before I went up there, because I stood outside and ate my sandwich
standing out there.
Mr. BELIN. You ate your lunch outside?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Standing in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN. In front of what building?
Mr. GIVENS.
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Mr. BELIN. Did you ever eat any lunch inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; I eat inside the building all the time.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22, did you eat inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now you said you saw Lee Oswald on the sixth floor around
11:55?
Mr. GIVENS. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see Lee Oswald anywhere else in the building between
11:55 and the time you left the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him in the domino room at all around anywhere
between 11:30 and 12 or 12:30?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him reading the newspaper?
Mr.
GIVENS. No; not that day. I did--he
generally sit in there every morning. He
would come to work and sit in there and read the paper, the next day paper, like
if the day was Tuesday, he would read Monday's paper in the morning when he
would come to work, but he didn't that morning because he didn't go in the
domino room that morning. I didn't
see him in the domino room that morning.
Mr. BELIN. How do you know it
was the previous day paper that he read?
Mr. GIVENS. Because he would
be sitting there and I would look at him, when he got through and got up to go
to work, I would get it and look at it.
Mr. BELIN. Would it be a News or Times Herald?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, they bring
Mr.
BELIN. You mean he would read someone else's newspaper that somebody else
brought to work?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever know him to buy his own newspaper?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I never saw him buy one.
Mr. BELIN. Who generally brought the newspaper there?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, Harold Norman would generally bring one and James Jarman would
generally bring one.
Mr. BELIN. Now you say you left the sixth floor.
Well, you said you left it first to go---did you go down with the other
employees on the elevator?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was that now?
Mr. GIVENS. That was about a quarter-- I said about a quarter to 12.
Mr. BELIN. Who was on that elevator, do you remember?
Mr.
GIVENS. That was Bonnie Ray
Williams, and Billy Lovelady, and Danny and myself.
Mr. BELIN. That was Danny Arce?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes: a Spanish boy.
Mr. BELIN. Then you say you got down there and you say you wanted your
cigarettes so you went back up?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What elevator did you go down on?
Mr. GIVENS. I came down on the east elevator.
Mr. BELIN. What elevator did you take back up?
Mr. GIVENS. The east elevator.
Mr.
BELIN. That day had you eaten any chicken at all, or anything on the sixth
floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you eaten any chicken or left a pep bottle on any previous
days on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you go immediately to your jacket when you went back up to the sixth
floor?
Mr.
GIVENS. Yes, sir; I went straight and picked up my jacket.
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Mr. BELIN. Where was your jacket?
Mr. GIVENS. It was on the west side of the building where we were
working.
Mr. BELIN. Well, there are seven pairs of windows.
Was it on the south wall of the building?
Was it near any one of those windows on the south wall, or was it more to
the center of the west side?
Mr. GIVENS. It was more to the corner on the west side.
I would say along about the second window going.
Mr. BELIN. When you say the corner, do you mean the corner by the stairs
or the southwest corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Southwest corner.
Mr. BELIN. You have shown the southwest corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; along about here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. You have pointed to a spot which appears to be approximately,
oh, 25 feet north, and about 10 feet east of the southwest corner of the sixth
floor. Would that be about right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You have pointed to a spot on this floor plan here.
When you walked from the east elevator to pick up your Jacket, did you
see Lee Oswald there?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him anywhere on the sixth floor when you were
walking off the elevator to pick 'up your jacket?
Mr.
GIVENS. No, sir; I didn't see him until I got back along here, about in front of
the elevator, fixing to get on.
Mr. BELIN. As you were walking to the first spot, which we will describe
as somewhat east of the east elevator, were you standing or about to get on the
elevator, or what?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; I was fixing to get on.
Mr. BELIN. You were fixing to get on? The elevator was still there where
you left it when you came up?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. As you were starting to get on the elevator or were turning to
get on it, you saw Lee Oswald walking with his clipboard?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, was he walking in a diagonal direction directly toward
you and the elevator, or was he walking more in a direction parallel to the east
wall here?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I would say yes, sir; he was going like this.
Mr. BELIN. He was going?
Mr. GIVENS. Coming down the aisle.
Mr. BELIN. Coming down the aisle straight?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Anything else in his hand other than a clipboard? Did he have a pencil in
his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I didn't pay any attention to him.
Mr.
BELIN. When you got off the elevator, as you were coming back up to get your
shirt, did you have any occasion as you were walking out of the elevator to look
to see if there was anyone else on the floor?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I wasn't thinking of that. I just happened to glance
around as I was on my way back.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you glance around when you got off the elevator, do you remember?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, no, sir. I just walked off and turned and went right over there
and picked my jacket up and started back.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you look over in the southeast corner before as you were getting off
the elevator?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I kind of glanced that way when I turned to go around the corner.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone over there at that time?
Mr. GIVENS. Not at that time, no, sir; I didn't.
Mr.
BELIN. Do you remember how high the books were by the southeast corner on the
sixth floor?
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Mr. GIVENS. Well, I would say about 10 feet from the window. In the aisle
we had one pretty good stack of books there, one large stack.
Mr. BELIN. Would they have been as tall as you?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. If a man would have been standing up there, would you have been able to
see him?
Mr.
GIVENS. No. sir; I wouldn't unless he moved down towards the north end of the
building.
. Mr.
BELIN. Did anyone else use any of the elevators while you were up on the sixth
floor getting your cigarettes?
Mr. GIVENS. Not that I know of; no, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you ever tell anyone that you saw Lee Oswald reading a newspaper in
the domino room around 11:50, 10 minutes to 12 on that morning on November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever observe Lee Oswald getting the newspaper in the
domino
room shortly before lunch on days other than November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. Not before lunch. It would be right at lunch time.
Mr. BELIN. Right at lunch time?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. We
always ate in there.
Mr. BELIN. Would Oswald always eat in there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When you first went downstairs from the sixth floor to the
first floor with the other men on those two elevators, you took two elevators,
didn't you?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; we took two down.
Mr. BELIN. Were you racing the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Who won?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, the east elevator beat the other one down, because it stopped
quicker, but it had to adjust itself.
Mr.
BELIN. What did you do when you got down to the first floor before you went back
up to the sixth floor again?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, I got a drink of water and reached for my cigarettes and I thought
about I left them in my jacket pocket.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you go to the rest room at all before you went back up to the sixth
floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. Yes, sir, I believe I did.
I went in and washed my hands, I sure did.
MR. BELIN. Anything else before you went back up to the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; that was it.
Mr.
BELIN. Now the first time when you left the sixth floor with these other men to
take the two elevators down, did you at any time look over to the southeast
corner of the sixth floor?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I didn't pay any attention the first time I was coming
down.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you laying the new floor that morning? What portion
of the sixth floor would it
Mr. GIVENS. West side.
Mr. BELIN. How much of the west side?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, we were working, I would say, about 10 feet from
Mr. BELIN. Well, you were pointing to right over this point here?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Well, looking at the scale, it would be about 10 feet from the--it would
be more than 10 feet. Here is the scale.
This would be 20 feet, so it would be more than 20 feet from
Mr. GIVENS. About 20 feet, maybe so.
Mr.
BELIN. Do you think it was closer to 10 feet than 20 feet from the
Mr. GIVENS. I believe it was somewhere in that vicinity.
Mr.
BELIN. How close was it to the west wall on the sixth floor?
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Mr. GIVENS. Well, we were, oh, I would say about 20 feet out from the
wall, we had laid.
Mr. BELIN. Did anyone else ever comment to you as having seen Oswald on
the sixth floor that morning?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. All right. Now, is there
anything else you can think of that happened that morning up to the time you
heard the shot?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. Everything was all right until that.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. GIVENS. Three.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you heard them?
Mr.
GIVENS. Well, we broke and ran down that way, and by the time we got to the
corner down there of
Mr. BELIN. Did you tell him you worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; but he still wouldn't let me in. He told me he wouldn't
let no one in.
Mr. BELIN. This was the front of
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
So I goes back over to the parking lot and I wait until I seen Junior.
Mr. BELIN. Is that Jarman?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes. They were on
their way home, and they told me that they let them all go home for the evening,
and I said, "I'd better go back and get my hat and coat."
So I started over there to pick up my hat and coat, and Officer Dawson
saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I
said," yes."
And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement."
And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a
statement to Will Fritz down there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see Lee Oswald at any time after the time you saw
him carrying the clipboard on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. The next
time I saw him was on television.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else you can think of, whether I have asked
it or not, that in any way is relevant to the assassination?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of about Lee Oswald, whether I
have it or not, that might in any way be helpful?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. Other
than he is just a peculiar fellow. He
is just a loner. Don't have much to
say to anybody. Stayed by himself
most of the time.
Mr.
BELIN. Did you ever notice any one person there he was more friendly with than
the other?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, this boy he rode with.
Mr. BELIN. Frazier?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Every once in a while I would see him talking to
him. Bonnie Ray told me---I never saw him, but Bonnie Ray told me he talked to
he and Danny sometimes.
Mr. BELIN. Anyone else?
Mr. GIVENS. Not that I know of; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; that is about it.
Mr.
BELIN. Well, Mr. Givens, we surely appreciate your cooperation in coming down
here.
Now you and I didn't talk about this at all until we started taking this
deposition, did we?
Mr.
GIVENS. No, sir.
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Mr. BELIN. You walked into the room and you raised your right hand and we
started taking your testimony. Is that correct?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Have I ever met you before?
Mr. GIVENS. I don't believe so. I don't believe I have.
Mr.
BELIN. You have an opportunity to come back here and read this and sign it if
you want, or else you can just waive signing and have the court reporter send it
directly to
Mr. GIVENS. Would it be necessary to come back?
Mr. BELIN. No, sir; it is not. You can waive it if you desire to do it.
Do you want to waive it?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right, thank you. We
will see you.
Troy
Eugene West
Contact Information tomnln@cox.net
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