ROBERT ALAN SURREY
Volume V
The
President's Commission met at 10:15 a.m., on June 16, 1964, at
Present
were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, and
Representative Hale Boggs, members.
Also
present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; and Albert E. Jenner, Jr.,
assistant counsel.
(Members
present: Chief Justice Warren, Senator Cooper, and Representative Boggs.)
The
CHAIRMAN. Mr. Surrey, we have asked you to come here to testify concerning two
things. The first is we want to ask you concerning the printing of
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Page 421
a publication entitled,
"Wanted for Treason" that appeared on the streets November 22, 1963,
in
Mr.
SURREY. I talked to Mr. Jenner. I am prepared to testify as concerns the
The
CHAIRMAN. For what reason--what reason do you assign for not wanting to?
It is not a question of whether a witness wants to testify here.
He is subpenaed to testify, and he must testify unless he has a
privilege.
Mr.
SURREY. I believe that my answers would tend to incriminate me under the fifth
amendment.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well. You are
entitled to raise that question. And, if you do, that privilege will be
respected. But we will ask you a question concerning it, and if you claim your
privilege it will be respected. And then if you want to testify--are willing to
testify about the other matters, you may do so.
Would
you rise and raise your right hand and be sworn? You solemnly swear that the
testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr.
SURREY. I do.
Representative
BOGGS. Mr. Chairman, I would suppose that we would not be limited to one
question. If he wants to plead the
fifth amendment, of course that is his privilege. But I would hope that we could
ask him several questions, and if he wants to plead he can plead on each
question.
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, on any phase of it that you wish to ask him a question, of
course it is all right.
Mr.
Jenner will conduct the examination.
Mr.
SURREY. Is it my understanding that if I do invoke the fifth amendment to begin
with, then I do not have the privilege of later on invoking it, is that correct?
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, I believe it is a fact that on any phase of your testimony, if
you testify in part about that phase, you can be required to testify fully
concerning it. But if there is one phase of your testimony that you want to
claim the privilege on, and are willing to testify as to other matters not
connected with it, you can do so without waiving your privilege.
Does that answer your question?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. Jenner?
Mr.
JENNER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr.
Chief Justice, I offer in evidence as Commission Exhibit No. 995 the original of
the subpena served upon Mr. Surrey.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes. A subpena was served
on you, was it, Mr.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well, it may be admitted.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 995 for identification,
and received in evidence.)
Mr.
JENNER. You are appearing in response to the subpena?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. Were you furnished with copies of the Senate joint resolution, or
legislation which created--authorized the creation of the Commission?
Mr.
SURREY. At a previous time; yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And President Johnson's Executive order, and the rules and regulations
of the Commission as to taking of testimony?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I was. It was hard to
read them.
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; they are a little bit difficult to read.
In
order that you may exercise the rights that you have indicated to the Chief
Justice, I will question you first about the pamphlet, after asking you the
preliminary questions as to your name.
Mr.
SURREY. Robert Alan Surrey.
Mr.
JENNER. And what is your address?
Mr.
SURREY. 3506 Lindenwood,
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Page 422
Mr.
JENNER. How long have you resided there?
Mr.
SURREY. Eight years.
Mr.
JENNER. And what is your age?
Mr.
SURREY. Thirty-eight.
Mr.
JENNER. Where were you born?
Mr.
SURREY.
Mr.
JENNER. When did you move to
Mr.
SURREY. First moved there in 1948, and then left for 2 years, from 1951 to 1953,
and then moved back to
Mr. JENNER. You are a college graduate; are you not?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. What university or college?
Mr.
SURREY. Northwestern.
Mr.
JENNER. In
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. When did you receive your
degree?
Mr.
SURREY. 1948.
Mr.
JENNER. You are married?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. Is Mrs. Surrey a native born
American?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; she is a Dallasite.
Mr.
JENNER. She is a
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. What is your business,
occupation, or profession?
Mr.
SURREY. I am a printing salesman.
Mr.
JENNER. For what company?
Mr.
SURREY. For Johnson Printing Co.
Mr.
JENNER. Is that located at 2700
North Haskell, in
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
Mr.
JENNER. How long have you been
employed by Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. Seven years.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you tell us in a general way what Johnson Printing Co. does?
I appreciate the name in the title of the company indicates printing, but
what kind?
Mr.
SURREY. Commercial printing, advertising printing, house organs--just general
commercial work.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you have some military service?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I did.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you state what it was?
Mr.
SURREY. I was 4 years in the Navy,
in World War II.
Mr.
JENNER. Are you also the president
of a book publishing company located in
Mr.
SURREY. The American Eagle
Publishing Co?
Mr.
JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. The only volume I have seen--there was a publication of reprints of
newspaper stories.
Mr.
SURREY. Called the Assassination Story, yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And your name appeared, I think, in that as the president of the
company.
Mr.
SURREY. A cover letter that was on the back cover.
Mr.
JENNER. And----
Mr.
SURREY. This was not our only publication. We
have done many publications before that.
Representative
BOGGS. Do we have a copy of this publication?
Mr.
JENNER. Of this particular one?
Mr.
SURREY. Mr. Alger's office came to me and requested two copies for the Warren
Commission, which I furnished to him.
Representative
BOGGS. Whose office?
Mr.
SURREY. Congressman Bruce Alger's office.
Representative
BOGGS. Did we make such a request through Congressman Alger?
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Page 423
Mr.
JENNER. I am not advised as to whether we did or not.
Mr.
RANKIN. I am quite sure we did not.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did we receive any such copies?
Mr.
JENNER. There is none among our exhibits in the exhibit room.
Mr.
SURREY. His secretary called, and they came out to the house and got two copies
of it.
Representative
BOGGS. How long ago was this?
Mr.
SURREY. Oh, I would say 3 weeks.
Representative
BOGGS. When did you publish this book?
Mr.
SURREY. I believe it was finally ready on January 1, right after January
l--January 1, 2, or 3, right in that area.
Representative
BOGGS. What does the book allege?
Mr.
SURREY. We took the 10-day period following the assassination from both
Representative
BOGGS. Nothing else--just newspaper clippings?
Mr.
SURREY. Just newspaper clippings.
Representative
BOGGS. No editorial comment of any kind?
Mr.
SURREY. Outside of the letter on the back; no.
Representative
BOGGS. And what is the letter on the back?
Mr.
SURREY. It said--this is just to the best of my knowledge, I don't recall
exactly--"This is the local report of what happened when President Kennedy
was assassinated. It is difficult to
muzzle a local reporter in his own local paper.
And we feel that some of the news that might not get out would be
included in this book. We do not
guarantee the accuracy of the information, but it will pose some questions, a
few perhaps that the Warren Commission will not see fit to answer," I
believe was in there.
Representative
BOGGS. Not see fit to what?
Mr.
SURREY. To answer.
Representative
BOGGS. What was the implication of that?
Mr.
SURREY. The implication being, as I see it, in Dallas--a local reporter--this
is, for example. A local reporter
from the Times Herald went down to the Western Union office several days after
the assassination, and was told by the people in the Western Union office that,
yes, they remembered Oswald, he had been in, he had gotten money orders, either
the day before or just recently he had sent a wire to somebody, and they
recalled his Swahili handwriting, and so forth.
Well, I feel that surely Western
Representative
BOGGS. The implication was that this Commission would not investigate these
allegations?
Mr.
SURREY. No---perhaps.
Representative
BOGGS. Well, what did you mean by the word "muzzle"?
Mr.
SURREY Of the press?
Representative
BOGGS. You used "muzzle" in this letter--written.
I don't have the letter before me. I
would like to have it.
Mr. SURREY. I don't, either. I would like to know what the exact wording
was on it, sir.
Representative
BOGGS. Did you write it?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Representative
BOGGS. And the implication was that this Commission would not seek out the
entire truth of the incidences arising----
Mr.
SURREY. Oh, no, sir; this was not the implication of the muzzling.
This was not the implication.
Representative
BOGGS. What was the implication of the statement you made a moment ago, about
questions that would not be asked by this Commission?
Mr.
SURREY. News happens in an area, and after it has been up to the national news
system, and then comes back through, and analyzed and so forth, I don't put full
credit any longer.
Representative
BOGGS. Your theory is that in a matter as significant as the assassination of
the President of the
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O---64---vol.----28
Page 424
Mr.
SURREY. Possibly.
Representative
BOGGS. Is that the substance of the book?
Mr.
SURREY. No. No; the substance of the
book is strictly newspaper clippings.
Representative
BOGGS. Plus a letter.
Mr.
SURREY. The letter is on the back cover of the book, just a cover letter.
Representative
BOGGS. Tell me more about what the letter says.
Mr.
SURREY. I would much rather have the letter.
I don't recall exactly what it does say, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did you write it yourself, or did somebody write it for you?
Mr.
SURREY. I wrote it myself.
The
CHAIRMAN. You don't remember what you wrote?
Mr.
SURREY. No; not as per specific words, I do not.
Representative
BOGGS. Well, not specific words. The sense.
Mr.
SURREY. You picked the specific word "muzzling" out of it.
Representative
BOGGS. You used that word; I didn't use it.
"Muzzle" when you refer to a bipartisan Commission, established
by the President of the
Mr.
SURREY. Based on some past experience that I have had--I was in
Now,
the local paper there--and I was not privileged to read the local at the time--
may have had some of the truth that went on there.
But there certainly wasn't a good deal of it coming out in the national
news media.
Senator
COOPER. Did you select the clippings that were in the book?
Mr.
SURREY. Pardon?
Senator
COOPER. Did you select the newspaper clippings?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I did not.
Senator
COOPER. Who selected them?
Mr.
SURREY. A couple named Osburn that lived in
Senator
COOPER. Who are they?
Mr.
SURREY. Just some people that live in
Senator
COOPER. Do you know their names?
Mr.
SURREY. Just Osburn.
Senator
COOPER. Do you' know their address?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I do not.
The
CHAIRMAN. How did you happen to be associated with them?
Mr.
SURREY. Mrs. Osburn works at
The
CHAIRMAN. You are speaking of General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Representative
BOGGS. Well, now, go ahead. I would
request, Mr. Chairman, that this book and this letter be made a part of the
record of this Commission.
The
CHAIRMAN. Will you supply us with a copy of the book?
Mr.
SURREY. If I have one, sir. They are out of print. And I don't know----
The
CHAIRMAN. Are they all sold?
Mr.
SURREY. Well, we were going into reprint, right at that particular time the
attorney from the Times Herald called and put a cease and desist on them.
The
CHAIRMAN. How many copies did you have printed?
Mr.
SURREY. 3,000.
The
CHAIRMAN. Were they sold?
Mr.
SURREY. Some of them were; yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. How many were sold?
Mr.
SURREY. I would say about 900 to a thousand.
The
CHAIRMAN. What became of the rest of them?
Mr.
SURREY. They were sent to our presubscriber list, and given away.
The
CHAIRMAN. Is this company that published them a corporation?
Mr.
SURREY. No; it is a partnership.
The
CHAIRMAN. Who are the partners?
Mr.
SURREY. Myself and General Walker.
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Page 425
The
CHAIRMAN. And General Walker?
Representative
BOGGS. Was this pamphlet that you printed included in the book?
Mr.
JENNER. Excuse me. That is----
Representative
BOGGS. "Wanted for Treason"?
Mr.
JENNER. Commission Exhibit No. 996.
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Representative
BOGGS. That was not included?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Representative
BOGGS. You didn't make that a part of the record of the events surrounding the
assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr.
SURREY. I did not make it a part of the record?
Representative
BOGGS. In this record that you published.
Mr.
SURREY. I had nothing to do with making it a part of the record.
Representative
BOGGS. You published the book, didn't you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; but these were newspaper reprints.
Representative
BOGGS. You published this, too, didn't you?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
Representative
BOGGS. You didn't publish it?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. You are speaking of the book now?
Representative
BOGGS. I am talking about your printing company.
Mr.
SURREY. You are talking about my printing company?
Representative
BOGGS. The company you work for.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, Johnson Printing
Representative
BOGGS. Didn't you publish this?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Representative
BOGGS. Who printed it?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.
Representative
BOGGS. Mr. Chairman, I, of course, fully appreciate the right of the witness to
plead the fifth amendment. But I
would simply like to make the observation that this is the only witness out of
hundreds who has pled the fifth amendment, and that obviously if each witness
had done this, then the charge of being muzzled would be something that we would
really be confronted with. I would simply like to make that observation.
The
CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Jenner.
Mr.JENNER.
Thank you. Does the American Eagle
Publishing Co. have a bookstore subsidiary or outlet?
Mr.
SURREY. No; we do not.
Mr.
JENNER. What is the American Eagle Book Store?
Mr.
SURREY. There is no American Eagle Book Store.
The
CHAIRMAN. Do you have a headquarters?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Do you have a telephone?
Mr.
SURREY. No. sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Are you listed with the local authorities under a fictitious or
assumed name?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes--doing business as?
The
CHAIRMAN. Doing business as, yes.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
The
CHAIRMAN. And the names given are yourself and General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Where is that filed--with your county clerk?
Mr.
SURREY. County clerk in
Mr.
JENNER. We have talked about General Walker: That is General Edwin A. Walker,
now resigned?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And do you know a Robert G. Krause?
Mr.
SURREY. I refuse to answer on the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Was he not formerly employed by Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
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Representative
BOGGS. Excuse me. Mr. Chief
Justice--we will have testimony from Mr. Krause, I presume?
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; do you know of a company, a printing company, Lettercraft Printing
Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. I refuse to answer--same reason.
The
CHAIRMAN. For the reason it would tend to incriminate you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you not prepare, the copy for Commission Exhibit No. 996?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the same reason; that it would tend to
incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. And, in turn, turn that copy over to Robert G. Krause, of the
Lettercraft Printing Co. for reproduction?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer, same reason.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 996 for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. Exhibiting again Exhibit No.--Commission Exhibit No. 996 you, you will
notice a front and profile view of President Kennedy.
Did you bring to Robert Krause photographs of which this is a
reproduction?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. In fact, did you not bring to Robert G. Krause two slick paper magazine
photographs of President Kennedy and request and engage him to make photographs
of the slick paper magazine photos for the purpose of reproduction?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer; same reason.
Mr.
JENNER. And did you not pay Robert G. Krause and his wife for printing some
5,000 to 10,000 of these handbills, of which Cormmission Exhibit No. 996 is a
copy?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you thereafter--did you not in fact thereafter, yourself--well, I
will ask you first--yourself, distribute duplicates of Exhibit No. 996 in and
about the streets of Dallas, Tex. on November 22 and days preceding?
Mr.
SURREY. Point of order. Can I ask a
question? If I now answer one or two
in through here, does this----
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, this is connected with the entire situation--the publication,
the distribution of it is one and the same subject matter, I would think.
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, I might bring this out.
Having received the rules and regulations of the Commission with respect
to the taking of testimony, you are aware of the fact that you are entitled to
have counsel present?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And you appear without counsel?
Mr.
SURREY. I cannot afford to bring counsel.
Mr.
JENNER. But you do appear without counsel?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I do.
Representative
BOGGS. I think, Mr. Chief Justice, the record should show if this man requested
counsel he would be entitled to counsel, would he not?
Mr.
JENNER. He certainly would. And he
has not requested it.
Representative
BOGGS. I just want the record to show that.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Senator
COOPER. Did you request counsel?
Mr.
SURREY. From whom, sir?
Senator
COOPER. Did you request the Commission to appoint counsel for you?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I did not. I did not
know this was available.
Representative
BOGGS. I might say it is still available.
Mr.
SURREY. Would this be a court-appointed?
The
CHAIRMAN. Beg pardon?
Mr.
SURREY. Would this be a court-appointed attorney?
The
CHAIRMAN. No; it would be an attorney appointed by the Commission.
Mr.
SURREY. Thank you.
The
CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Jenner.
Representative
BOGGS. You prefer not to have an attorney appointed by the Commission?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
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Page 427
Representative
BOGGS. We might let the record show at this point, also, that the American Bar
Association has been closely associated with the Commission.
Mr.
SURREY. What does that mean? I mean what is the purpose of that remark?
Representative
BOGGS. To show that the attorneys appointed are completely objective.
Mr.
SURREY. I did not imply they were not, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you know Mrs. Clifford Mercer, Dorothy Mercer?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you know Mr. Clifford Mercer?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer; same reason.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you know of a photoengraving company in Dallas,
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you know J. T. Monk or J. T. Monk, Jr.?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer, same grounds.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you have one of the workmen, printing workmen, at Johnson Printing
Co., set type for the copy which appears on Commission Exhibit No. 996?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. And thereafter, after that type was set, have photographs made of that
type?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer; same reason.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you know Mr. Bernard Weissman?
Mr.
SURREY. No. We are in another field
now, I gather.
Mr.
JENNER. Well, I don't want to represent to you that it is.
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Have you had any business relations with a man by the name of Bernard
Weissman?
Mr.
SURREY. If this is in your opinion still part of the other--concerning these
leaflets, then I will plead the fifth amendment.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, with the policy of the Commission to be fully fair to
all witnesses, may I respond to the witness and say to him there is that
possibility.
The
CHAIRMAN. There is that possibility; yes--that is a sufficient statement.
Mr.
JENNER. And being that possibility, do you wish to decline to answer the
question on the ground an answer may tend to incriminate you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, unless you or other members of the Commission have
some questions on this line of examination, I will not ask further questions
with respect to it--unless you gentlemen desire to ask questions.
The
CHAIRMAN. Any further questions, Congressman Boggs?
Representative
BOGGS. Was anyone associated with you in the publication of this leaflet?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did General Walker have anything to do with it?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me but, no.
The
CHAIRMAN. What? Now you have opened that up, sir--if you say--was your answer
no, or is your answer that you claim the privilege?
Mr.
SURREY. My answer is that I claim the privilege, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. That is different.
Senator
COOPER. May I just ask one question? To return for a moment to this book that
you printed with newspaper clippings--what was your purpose in printing it?
Mr.
SURREY. As a memento, primarily.
Senator
COOPER. You had no other purpose?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
Senator
COOPER. Didn't you really have the purpose of impugning the work of this
Commission and giving the implication that it would not go fully and thoroughly
into all questions?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir. This was not the intent; no.
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Page 428
Representative
BOGGS. What was the allegation in the cease and desist orderwhich was issued
against you by the
Mr.
SURVEY. That this would be in competition to a book which they were going to
promote--I believe the AP. At the
time--the Osburns had this, and they were gathering it together, and they
brought it over one day, and it looked like a real good idea. Other people had
stacks and stacks of papers. And this was a compilation of clippings of the
paper. And everybody thought it was such a good idea that we thought we would
publish it. So I got it into
brownline form, which is a proof, a preliminary proof--silver prints, you may
call them in
The
CHAIRMAN. For how much did you sell these books a copy?
Mr.
SURREY. We gave them free to our presubscriber list.
The
CHAIRMAN. I didn't ask you that.
Mr.
SURREY. They were $5 per copy.
The
CHAIRMAN. And how many did you say you sold?
Mr.
SURREY. About 900 to a 1,000.
The
CHAIRMAN. What happened to the money?
Mr.
SURREY. It was put into the American Eagle Publishing Co. account.
The
CHAIRMAN. Do you have a regular bookkeeping system?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. And those figures would be available, showing how many you had sold,
would they?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. In your books?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Representative
BOGGS. Is the American Eagle Publishing Co. an incorporated company?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Representative
BOGGS. What is it?
Mr.
SURREY. Partnership, sir.
Representative
BOGGS. Who are the partners?
Mr.
SURREY. Myself and General Walker.
Representative
BOGGS. And this presubscription list, how many people on that?
Mr.
SURREY. I would say 700, 800.
Representative
BOGGS. You publish a newspaper?
Mr.
SURREY. No; we don't.
Representative
BOGGS. What do you publish besides this book?
Mr.
SURREY. Pamphlets--pamphlets.
Mr.
JENNER. You receive part of your income from the American Eagle Publishing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I do not.
Mr.
JENNER. You serve as president, but you receive no compensation for that?
Mr.
SURREY. That is true.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you tell us, please, the address of the American Eagle Publishing
Co.?
Mr.
SURREY.
Mr.
JENNER. It has no physical office itself--just the pest office address?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct. That mail
comes to my desk at Johnson Printing Co. That
is the same post office box as Johnson Printing Co.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. And where do you
keep---where does American Publishing Co. warehouse or keep or store its
pamphlets and books?
Mr.
SURREY.
Mr.
JENNER. That is General Walker's residence?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
The
CHAIRMAN. That is General Walker's residence?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
The
CHAIRMAN. Who owns the Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. It is--the stock is split, four or five different people.
The
CHAIRMAN. A corporation?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
The
CHAIRMAN. Who are they?
428
Page 429
Mr.
SURREY. Mr. Bryan Snyder is chairman of the board.
Mr. Emil Borak is president, and Mr. Lewis C. Owens is treasurer.
I believe some stock is held by Oliver Snyder, and I have some stock. And
Mr. Fallon Snyder.
The
CHAIRMAN. It is a commercial company?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
The
CHAIRMAN. Is General Walker connected with it?
Mr.
SURREY. No; he is not.
The
CHAIRMAN. Or with the other people, as far as you know?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Is Mr. Borak the general manager of the plant itself?
Mr.
SURREY. No; he is president of the company.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. Who is the general
manager of the plant?
Mr.
SURREY. Mr. Owens.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Owens.
Did
you acquaint Mr. Owens or Mr. Borak, either of them, with the fact that you had
Commission Exhibit No. 996 printed at the Lettercraft Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you make either or both of them aware of the fact that some of the
copy or all of the copy with respect to Commission Exhibit No. 996 was prepared
by way of printing at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. How many printers do you have at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. How many employees?
Mr.
JENNER. No---that operate linotypes or operate these machines that produce these
slugs--what is the name of that kind of machine?
Mr.
SURREY. Well, it would be a monotype or a linotype or a
Mr.
JENNER. Are these lines on Exhibit No. 996 Ludlow productions?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Who are the
Mr.
SURREY. Oh, I would say there are probably 10 or 15 that operate the
Mr.
JENNER. Does your recollection serve you to name those who operated the
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Are you able to name any of the linotype operators who were employed
during the first 22 days of November 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Who were employed at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.
JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. Well, I gather this has nothing to do with this.
So may I answer?
Mr.
JENNER. I don't want to lead you to
believe it doesn't, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the ground it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. From whom was the paper purchased on which appears the imprinting on the
exhibit identified here as Commission Exhibit No. 996.
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you see another reproduction of Commission Exhibit No. 996 at any
time from the 1st of November 1963 to and including the 22d of November 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, I will now depart from this particular phase, if that
is permissible.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr.
JENNER. I am now going to turn, Mr. Surrey, to the attempt on the life of
General Walker.
First
I would like to have you examine a series of photographs which purport to be
photographs of the area of the
Mr.
Chief Justice, may I approach the witness for this purpose?
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
429
Page 430
Mr.
JENNER. I show the witness Commission Exhibit No. 2, Item No. 7, subdivision
item No. P-2. Do you see that, sir?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I do.
Mr.
JENNER. Examining the subitem, P-2,
is the area depicted in that photograph to you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
It is the alley in behind Mr. Walker's
residence, looking west?
Mr.
JENNER. Looking west?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you be able to help us
as to an estimate, perhaps from the nature of the foliage, and your familiarity
with the
Mr.
SURREY. I would say late fall.
Mr.
JENNER. Could it have been the early spring, mid-March, for example?
1st of March, along in there?
Mr.
SURREY. It could have been; yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Either in the fall, when there is a deleafing or lack of foliage on
trees, or the early spring?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. I show you what purports to be the same thing, also marked--it is a
larger photograph--Commission Exhibit No. 2, Item No. 7.
Directing your attention to the subdivision P-2 you have just testified
about, are they photographs----
Mr.
SURREY. Basically the same thing. It looks like this one was taken a little
closer to the ground.
Mr.
JENNER. When you say this one, you mean the larger of the two?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. On Commission Exhibit No. 3,
Item 14, subitem P-l, directing your attention to that, you recognize that?
Mr.
SURREY. That is a picture of the
back of the residence of 4011 Turtle Creek.
Mr.
JENNER. General Edwin Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. I perhaps should have asked you this:
You are familiar with the area surrounding General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I am.
Mr.
JENNER. You have been there a good
many times, have you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I have.
Mr.
JENNER. On all sides of the home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And are you familiar with
the inside of the home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I am.
Mr.
JENNER. And have you worked there
from time to time over the years?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. How long have you been associated with General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Since the beginning of his campaign, when that was--I think the
spring--about 3 years now.
The
CHAIRMAN. What campaign is that?
Mr.
SURREY. When he ran for Governor of Texas.
Mr.
JENNER. That initiated your association with him?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And what are your duties in your association with General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. I am just a volunteer helper, whatever he needed, volunteer help in
doing, I would help.
Mr.
JENNER. Are you compensated?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I am not.
Mr.
JENNER. You have never received any compensation?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I haven't.
Mr.
JENNER. You have never received any compensation from the publishing
company we have identified that published that book?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
430
Page 431
The
CHAIRMAN. Do you handle any funds for General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Of General Walker's fund?
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Or any funds----
Mr.
SURREY. Except what----
The
CHAIRMAN. Or any funds that come to General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. No; only that comes to American Eagle Co., which is in fact, I guess,
technically his funds.
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, what funds do come to American Eagle Co.?
Mr.
SURREY. Funds for purchasing of materials, and some donations.
That is it.
The
CHAIRMAN. Outside of donations, how do you get your funds for publishing?
Mr.
SURREY. From the sale of materials.
The
CHAIRMAN. And the rest of it is all donations?
Mr.
SURREY. Donations are extremely small, as a matter of fact, yes.
We operate on the sale of materials.
The
CHAIRMAN. How much in the aggregate of donations have you had?
Mr.
SURREY. To American Eagle Publishing Co.?
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
SURREY. I would say a hundred dollars.
The
CHAIRMAN. A hundred dollars?
Mr.
SURREY. Over 2 years or 2 1/2 years.
The
CHAIRMAN. Where did you get the money to publish your book?
Mr.
SURREY. At the beginning of American Eagle Publishing Co., we started with a
backlog of books which had been used in the campaign.
This was Mr. Walker's contribution to the American Eagle Publishing Co.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did General Walker sell his campaign books?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't know if he did or not.
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, you don't pay publishing funds with books, do you?
Mr.
SURREY. From the sale of the books which were turned over to American Eagle Co.
at its inception, from the sale of those books, we have accumulated finds to go
on with others.
The
CHAIRMAN. At its inception, where did you get the money to publish?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't understand your question, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Well----
Mr.
SURREY. At its inception we didn't have any money.
The
CHAIRMAN. When you publish books, you have to have some capital of some kind.
Mr.
SURREY. The capital was raised from the sale of a book called "Walker
Speaks Unmuzzled" which sells for 35 cents.
We started with that.
The
CHAIRMAN. You published that first?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Who published that?
Mr.
SURREY. I believe General Walker did.
The
CHAIRMAN. And how much money came from the sale of those books?
Mr.
SURREY. I do not know offhand, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Approximately.
Mr.
SURREY. We are still selling them.
The
CHAIRMAN. Beg pardon?
Mr.
SURREY. We are still selling them.
The
CHAIRMAN. But you handle the funds, don't you, for the company?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; but I don't know specific items.
The
CHAIRMAN. Well, I am not asking you for specific items.
But I would like to know approximately how much money.
Let
me put it this way: How much money have you handled for that company in the
last--since it has been established?
Mr.
SURREY. Oh, as a rough estimate, $10,000 to $15,000.
The
CHAIRMAN. And only a hundred dollars of that was contributions from outsiders?
Mr.
SURREY. I would say that would be it.
431
Page 432
The
CHAIRMAN. And was there any of that $10,000 or $15,000 that came from any
individual other than from people who purchased the books?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; at one time the General put some more money into the
company.
The
CHAIRMAN. How much money did he put into it?
Mr.
SURREY. I believe a thousand dollars.
The
CHAIRMAN. That is all?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
The
CHAIRMAN. Anybody else put any money into it?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did you?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, may I revert to the other subject matter?
I have an additional question I would like to ask. And I warn the witness
in advance I am returning to the pamphlet.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Your questions have stimulated me to ask another question.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Were any of the funds that reached Eagle Publishing Co. by way of
contributions or proceeds of sale of materials employed or used to pay for the
leaflet, Commission Exhibit No. 996?
Mr.
SURREY. Now, I understand that if I answer that question, it opens up the whole
thing again. So I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
The
CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, I have asked our Chief Counsel, Mr. Rankin, to have a
search of our files made and our telephone calls to see if we have received
anything from Congressman Alger concerning this book. And Mr. Rankin, will you
report to us what your finding is, please?
Mr.
RANKIN. I had a search made of our files, and any incoming calls from the
Congressman to see if we had received any such material, and such a search
showed that we had not received any such material.
I then called Congressman Alger's office to ask there if there had been
any communication from them, and was informed that they had not sent anything to
us, but that one of the booklets had been given away by Congressman Alger, and
they had one left, and I have sent for that one to have for our records.
Representative
BOGGS. I would like to see it when it gets here.
You expect it pretty soon?
Mr.
RANKIN. I sent him on the run.
Representative
BOGGS. Good.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Surrey, I will return to the General Walker incident now.
I
would like you particularly to examine the next photograph, which appears in
Commission Exhibit No. 4, Item 6, as subletter P-5.
This
depicts, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen, a railroad track--in the far distance a
tall building. Is that area at all familiar to you?
That
is undoubtedly the MKT line, or some spur line.
You
are familiar with the MKT line, are you not?
Mr.
SURREY. This I do not recognize the area.
Mr.
JENNER. I will ask you this. Is
there a railroad near General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Facing out of the house, facing Turtle Creek, across the creek, and then
another half block or so, there is a railroad.
Mr.
JENNER. Within a half a block?
Mr.
SURREY. Well, it would be a full city block to the railroad. Perhaps even more.
I have never been in that area, as a matter of fact.
Mr.
JENNER. Having that in mind, I show you a photograph, aerial view photograph,
which we have marked Commission Exhibit No. 998. Mr. Chief Justice, that is a
copy of the exhibit.
That
purports to be an aerial photograph taken of the vicinity of General Walker's
residence. And you will notice there is an encircled building and the
designation "A."
First,
do you recognize that general area?
432
Page 433
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I do.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 998 for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. And does the encirclement of the home there appear to be General
Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; it does. I don't
see a house that should be in the corner.
Mr.
JENNER. You say corner--you
mean----
Mr.
SURREY. Right there.
Mr.
JENNER. To the left?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; there is a house there between
Mr.
JENNER. And you are talking about the street here--you are pointing to a street
that runs obliquely from left to right towards the upper corner of the picture?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. To the left, of the house encircled as General Walker's house?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes. Oh, I see, I am sorry.
It is much further back from the street. That is the house.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, the house you say that is next is the one immediately to the left
of the one encircled?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I was looking in this area for the houses. That is correct. That is
General Walker's residence, as depicted in the picture.
Mr.
JENNER. And the house to the left is the house you thought at first was not
shown, but in fact it is shown?
Mr.
SURREY. It is.
Mr.
JENNER. And who is the owner of that home?
Mr.
SURREY. I do not know. A doctor.
Mr.
JENNER. A lady doctor?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is a woman, runs the household.
Mr.
JENNER. Dr. Ruth Jackson?
Mr.
SURREY. It sounds familiar, but I do not know.
Mr.
JENNER. Does she have a dog that is sometimes obstreperous, does a lot of
barking?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; she does.
Mr.
JENNER. You are quite familiar with that fact, are you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. How and why did you become familiar with that fact?
Mr.
SURREY. Anyone approaching the house, generally her house or General Walker's
house, would be barked at, in the middle of the night noises.
Mr.
JENNER. And you have approached General Walker's house, I assume, at night, have
you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. If the dog is out in Dr.
Jackson's yard, the dog is alerted and barks?
Mr.
SURREY. Not so much any more.
Evidently he knows who I am now.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. But before the
dog became familiar with you, he did bark?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. What kind of a dog is it, by
the way?
Mr.
SURREY. A small Collie, I
guess--shaggy,, brownish dog.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you recall whether or not at or about the time of the attempt on
General Walker's life that dog became or was ill.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was. This was reported to me. I do not know of firsthand
knowledge.
Mr.
JENNER. I would prefer not to have your hearsay. You have no knowledge
firsthand, however?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I do not.
Mr.
JENNER. Unless, Mr. Chairman, you desire to pursue the hearsay----
The
CHAIRMAN. No, no.
Mr.
JENNER. Continuing with Exhibit No. 998, and looking at the footnotes, would you
tell us whether that footnoting is accurate--A through G?
Mr.
JENNER. I am not familiar with
433
Page 434
Mr.
JENNER. Which is designated as G?
Mr.
SURREY. It very well could be
Yes;
to the best of my knowledge that is accurate.
Mr.
JENNER. There is a tall building to the left, rather nice-looking.
Are you familiar with that building?
Mr.
SURREY. No; there are several new ones going right up in that area.
I think that is the Spa, or something.
Mr.
JENNER. I am referring, Mr. Chief Justice, to the tall building with a lattice
design immediately to the right of the letter "A".
What
did you think that was?
Mr.
SURREY. A new development in there called 21 Turtle Creek, the Spa, or
something. I only know it from newspaper ads.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. Was that building in
that condition or being erected in the spring of 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. If that is the building I think of, it has just been finished month or
so now.
Mr.
JENNER. How long has it been under construction?
Mr.
SURREY. Possibly a year, a year and a half.
Mr.
JENNER. Does that photograph fairly depict and represent the area it shows as
that area existed in the spring of 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. No; you are missing a Jesuit high school which was here.
Mr.
JENNER. When you say was here, I have to identify the spot to which you are
pointing. And the spot to which you
are pointing is the open field area that is shown immediately to the right of
the building we have identified, near which
the letter "A" appears?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Tell us about that.
Mr.
SURREY. That was the old Jesuit high school, which has been torn down just
recently. I believe just recently finished tearing it down.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. I will identify these other photographs rather quickly. In
each instance, will you look at the photograph and tell us whether the
sublettering is correct.
I
have now handed the witness Commission Exhibit No. 999.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 999 for identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. I believe that to be generally correct.
This area of
Mr.
JENNER. It is some distance away, and the area of
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Otherwise, this is an accurate representation of that area and as it
existed in the spring of 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Again, the high school is--I don't believe that that Jesuit high school
was to the ground as it shows here, in the spring of 1963.
Mr.
JENNER. I now call your attention to the building that appears immediately to
the right of the circle.
Mr.
SURREY. That is, I believe, the same building that shows in the previous
exhibit.
Mr.
JENNER. Thank you. That is just
exactly what I was going to ask you. All right. Now, would you look at
Commission Exhibit No. 1000.
(The
documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 1000 and 1002 for
identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. Are those footnotings correct?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; I believe they are.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you look at 1002.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; I believe they are substantially correct.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. For the purposes
of the record, Mr. Reporter, Commission Exhibit No. 1000 also has a sticker on
it marked Commission Exhibit No. 1001. Would you please note in the record we
will not be using Commission Exhibit 1001. It
got on there by mistake. Now, you
just covered Exhibit No. 1002. Now, Exhibits Nos. 1003, 1004.
434
Page 435
(The
documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits No. 1003 and 1004,
respectively, for identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; that street previously mentioned was Avondale.
That is the street immediately to the west.
Mr.
JENNER. And it appears on Commission Exhibit No. 1003?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. Have you yet examined Commission Exhibit No. 1004?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I have not.
Mr.
JENNER. The witness is now examining Commission Exhibit No. 1004.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr.
SURREY. I believe that is correct, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. I will ask you a
general question to be sure we have covered all of these.
Calling
your attention to Commission Exhibits Nos. 998, 999, 1000, 1002, 1003, and 1004,
which are aerial photographs-- are they aerial photographs of the vicinity of
General Walker's house?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; they are.
Mr.
JENNER. And do they, except for the high school matter which you have pointed
out to us--do they represent fairly the area as it was in the spring of 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I would say that is generally correct.
Mr.
JENNER. All right, sir. Now, the
Commission is interested, Mr. Surrey, in whether there are some open areas or
fields near General Walker's house in which an object such as a firearm or rifle
could be buried.
Mr.
SURREY. Directly across from in front of the house--of course, Turtle Creek
Boulevard, and across from Turtle Creek Boulevard is Turtle Creek itself, with a
lawn area coming up to the street of 20 to 30 yards in some places.
Mr.
JENNER. Using the blank sheet of paper I hand you, would you just give us a
diagram--a rough diagram of the area of General Walker's house, so that I can
locate the field about which you now speak?
Mr.
SURREY. It is not actually a field.
Mr.
JENNER. And we will mark that as Commission Exhibit No. 1005.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1005 for identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. This is Turtle Greek. [Witness
draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. Now, is Turtle Creek a street?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is a street, a boulevard.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Mr.
SURREY. Mr. Walker's residence is here. [Witness
draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. Is the top of this sheet north or south, west or east? When I say that I
refer to Commission Exhibit No. 1005.
Mr.
SURREY. This is north.
Mr.
JENNER. All right, Put an arrow and the letter "N" at that point. Now,
would you put south on the other side, and then east and west where they belong?
Mr.
SURREY. These are not exact. They are several points off. But generally.
Mr.
JENNER. You are just making a rough sketch, sir, for the purpose of helping with
your testimony. You have now drawn in General
Now,
having done that, you have now described an area--told us of an area where a
firearm--a field where a firearm might be buried that is in the vicinity of
General Walker's home. Would you
indicate where that would be?
Mr.
SURREY. Here is Turtle Creek. [Witness
draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. You are now drawing a wavy line. Would you write in there "Turtle
Creek." And that is a stream, is it?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Does it always have water in it?
Mr.
SURREY. To my knowledge; yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Mr.
SURREY. Now, this area across
Mr.
JENNER. That is to the south of General Walker's house.
435
Page 436
Mr.
SURREY. And going down to the creek is a grassy, leafed, brushed, tree area.
Mr.
JENNER. It is not an open field?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. But it is an area in which a firearm could be buried?
Mr.
SURREY. It is down near the creek--there are rocks.
(At
this point, Representative Boggs withdrew from the hearing room.)
Mr.
SURREY. In addition to that--here is Avondale, here is the doctor's residence
[Witness draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. This is Dr. Jackson's residence you have now drawn?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you please----
Mr.
SURREY. And this entire block here is----
Mr.
JENNER You are pointing to the west?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Along
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER.Would you put the word "drive" there.
Mr.
SURREY. It is boulevard.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Would you repeat
your testimony in that connection?
Mr.
SURREY. Another block of
residences----
Mr.
JENNER To the west?
Mr.
SURREY. To the west. And then you
come to that field where the new building is going up and the Jesuit high school
was.
Mr.
JENNER. And that is the new building you identified in one of the earlier
exhibits, and the high school has now been torn down?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. And there was--in
the spring of 1963, was there a field there?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; there still is.
Mr.
JENNER. Where a firearm could have been buried?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. We understand there is a church, a church house, near the
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you locate it, please?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; directly to the east. [Witness
draws.] Their driveway comes up
between the
Mr.
JENNER. Excuse me. For the purpose
of the record, the witness has now drawn in what looks like a parking lot area,
is that correct?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Is that the church parking lot?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
Mr.
JENNER. And where is the church house itself located?
Mr.
SURREY. This entire area. I don't
know about the shape of it. But it
is in this area.
Mr.
JENNER. Write the word "church" in there.
[Witness does so.] What
church is that?
Mr.
SURREY. It is a Mormon church.
Mr.
JENNER. And about how far distant from the
Mr.
SURREY. It is on the next lot--I would say 400 feet, maybe.
Mr.
JENNER. What is there intervening, if anything, between the Mormon church
buildings and General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. In the way of a fence, you mean?
Mr.
JENNER. Well, first; are there any buildings?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. Or any sheds or anything of that character?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. Are there any trees?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; there are trees.
436
Page 437
Mr.
JENNER. Is it heavily or
lightly wooded?
Mr.
SURREY. Lightly.
Mr.
JENNER. There is a fence?
Mr.
Mr.
JENNER. A wooden fence?
Mr.
SURREY. A wooden fence
about 5-foot tall.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. Is that a
lattice fence or a solid fence?
Mr.
SURREY. Along this side here it is a
solid fence.
Mr.
JENNER. When you say this side, you are pointing to the driveway leading to
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; the fence actually is here. [Witness draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. You have now put--he is indicating the fence.
And that is a lattice or slat fence?
Mr.
SURREY. That is a solid fence there. And
then it is latticed along the alley.
Mr.
JENNER. Which way does the front of General Walker's house face on
Mr.
SURREY. On Turtle Creek.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. That will be
helpful to us. We will just set that
exhibit aside for the moment.
Some
of these photographs I am now about to show you--I now show you a photograph,
Commission Exhibit No. 5, Item No. 369. Do
you recognize that?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I do. It is a photo of the back of General Walker's home.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Now, returning to your plat, Commission Exhibit No. 1005, is
that the side of General Walker's house that faces the church?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. It is the side--is it the side that faces Dr. Jackson's home?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. Is it the side that faces onto or toward
Mr.
SURREY. No; it is not.
Mr.
JENNER. Is it the side that faces toward the alley which you have drawn on
Commission Exhibit No. 1005?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
Mr.
JENNER. Fine. Now, you will notice
in that photograph an automobile, but no license plate, and there appears to be
obliterated an area in which a license plate might have appeared on that car.
Now,
first, you do see the automobile?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I have seen this photo before.
Mr. Barrett of the FBI in
Mr.
JENNER. Do you recognize the automobile?
Mr.
SURREY. Not positively, but I think it belongs to Mr. Charles Klihr.
Mr.
JENNER. And who is Mr. Charles Klihr?
Mr.
SURREY. He is a volunteer worker of Mr. Walker's, also.
Mr.
JENNER. Are you sufficiently familiar with Mr. Charles Klihr's automobile you
already identified it----
Mr.
SURREY. No; I did not identify it. I cannot do that, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. To the best of your ability is all I am suggesting, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you have a recollection as to whether there was a license plate or
license plate fixture in or about the area in which the black spot on the
automobile appears?
Mr.
SURREY. I have seen Mr. Klihr's automobile many times.
I have not seen it without a license plate, which I think I would note if
it were not there.
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; but located at or about in the vicinity of that black spot?
Mr.
SURREY. I would say to the best of my knowledge; yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Thank you, sir. Were you at General Walker's home the evening of the
attempted assassination, or attempt on his life?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I was. After the shot. I was not there at the time.
Mr.
JENNER. How soon after the shot were you there?
Mr.
SURREY. About 15 minutes.
Mr.
JENNER. How did you become aware that there had been an attempt on his life?
437
Page 438
Mr.
SURREY. He called me on the telephone at my home.
Mr.
JENNER. And how far did you live from General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. About 2 miles.
Mr.
JENNER. And you immediately drove over there?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. What kind of an automobile do you own and drive?
Mr.
SURREY. A 1961 Ford convertible.
Mr.
JENNER. And did you arrive at his home in that convertible?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, I did.
Mr.
JENNER. What time of the day or night was this?
Mr.
SURREY. This was about 9 to 9:30 in the evening.
Mr.
JENNER. What day? I mean date.
Mr.
SURREY. April 10th.
Mr.
JENNER. What year?
Mr.
SURREY. 1963.
Excuse me. This is 1964,
isn't it.
Mr.
JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. So this would be----
Mr.
JENNER. Was this a year ago?
Mr.
SURREY. It would be 1963, yes.
Mr.
JENNER. I have marked a series of photographs as Commission Exhibits Nos. 1006
through 1012.
(The
photographs referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 1006 through 1012,
respectively, for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. These purport to be photographs of portions and places in--both inside
and outside General Walker's home relating to the incident in question.
Would
you be good enough to take them seriatim, identify them by exhibit number----
Mr.
SURREY. Take them how?
Mr.
JENNER. Seriatim in series--commencing with Commission Exhibit 1006. And tell us
if you are familiar with the photograph and whether it depicts a portion of
General Walker's home, and, if so, what portion.
Mr.
SURREY. I don't know what this is here in the back yard, but outside of that it
looks like a picture of the window facing towards the alley which the shot came
through.
Mr.
JENNER. From the direction the shot came?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And the marring on the molding of the window is the point of the screen
and the window through which the bullet came?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you examine that that evening?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I did.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you see the breach in the casement which is depicted on Commission
Exhibit No. 1006?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I did. What is this in the back? Do you happen to know?
Mr.
JENNER. No; I don't. But I think I
can bring it out. These photographs,
I think, were taken fairly recently.
Have
you been at General Walker's house in the last couple of weeks?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I have.
Mr.
JENNER. And have you had occasion to notice whether or not any repair whatsoever
has been made or was made with respect to the marring of the molding?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't believe it has. That looks like a stack of cardboard back there.
I am not familiar with it.
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; it looks like heavy asbestos, or some wood out in the yard.
Mr.
SURREY. I am not familiar with that.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, look at Exhibit No. 1007.
Excuse
me the photograph Exhibit No. 1006
represents that casement in its present condition?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; to the best of my knowledge.
Mr.
JENNER. And also as it was when you saw it that night, April 10?
Mr.
SURREY. No; the window was closed when I saw it that night.
438
Page 439
Mr.
JENNER. But the breach in the molding is the same on this photograph as it was
when you saw it that night?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Now, the next photograph is Exhibit No. 1007, and purports to
be a photograph taken from the outside of General Walker's home with the camera
pointed into his home.
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. And----
Mr.
SURREY. It shows the same breach allegedly caused by a bullet----
Mr.
JENNER. That is shown on Exhibit 1006?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And in the case of Exhibit No. 1006, that photograph represents the
present condition of that casement and that window and that screen, as well as
it was when you saw it on the evening of April 10, 1963? Insofar as the breach
is concerned?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I seem to recall more cobwebbing effect than it shows in the
photograph.
Mr.
JENNER. Exhibit No. 1008 purports to be a room in General Walker's home, and a
wall, with a bullet hole shown in it.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you recognize that room?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I do.
Mr.
JENNER. And is that a picture of one of the rooms in General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
Mr.
JENNER. Where is it with respect to the room shown in Commission Exhibit No.
1007?
Mr.
SURREY. It is the same room.
Mr.
JENNER. The same room?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; all this material has been turned around, from that night.
Mr.
JENNER. You are referring in your last comment to Commission Exhibit No. 1007,
some pamphlet materials you see shown in that photograph?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, turning your attention to Commission Exhibit No. 1008, does the
wall that is shown on that exhibit face the casement window shown on Exhibit No.
1007, or is that the reverse side?
Mr.
SURREY. It is the other wall, the other side of the room from the window.
Mr.
JENNER. Is that the wall in which the bullet entered, or the wall, the side of
the wall from which the bullet exited?
Mr.
SURREY. That is the side of the wall that it entered.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Then I show you Commission Exhibit No. 1009.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; this is the next room now where the bullet exited.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, taking Exhibits Nos. 1008 and 1009, am I correct, sir, that Exhibit
No. 1008 shows the wall on the entry side of the bullet, and Exhibit No. 1009 is
the reverse side of the wall shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1008?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. In other words, the side of the wall that the bullet exited?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Now,
this picture was taken at the time, or soon thereafter, because this material
was in this position.
(At
this point, Senator Cooper withdrew from the hearing room.)
Mr.
JENNER. All right, sir.
You
are able to say, from your familiarity with the condition of matters on the
evening of April 10, 1963, that both Commission exhibits----
Mr.
SURREY. No; that one I don't know.
Mr.
JENNER. That Commission Exhibit No. 1009 depicts the condition of that room,
which is the room to the reverse side of Commission Exhibit No. 1008, as it was
the evening of April 10, 1963.
Mr.
SURREY. Substantially the same; yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And even including the boxes and packages of material?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
439
731-221
O---64---vol. V----29
Page 440
Mr.
JENNER. You will notice in substantially the center of that exhibit a rupture
appears to be in the wall. Was that in fact a rupture?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was. That is where
the bullet came out of the wall, and when the police came they found the bullet
on top of these packages.
Mr.
JENNER. On top of the packages shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1009, I show you
Exhibit No. 1011, which appears to be a photograph of a fence, a
lattice fence. Are you familiar with that?
Mr.
SURREY. I believe it is the same type of thing as is in back of home, in the
alleyway.
Mr.
JENNER. Is it not in fact a picture of the fence that is---surrounds to rear
General
Mr.
SURREY. I don't know. It is the same
type, it looks the same.
Mr.
JENNER. It looks the same to you?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes
Mr.
JENNER. When you made your diagram, Exhibit No. 1005, you drew a line along the
alley, and I think you said that was a lattice fence.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I drew it too far. This is
Mr.
JENNER. Well that is all right. The lattice fence you identified----
Mr.
SURREY. Is of the same type and construction.
Mr.
JENNER. As shown on Exhibit No. 1011?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. All right, sir. Thank you.
Is the area depicted on Exhibit No. 1012 familiar to you?
Mr.
SURREY. It looks like a picture taken from the top of that lattice fence towards
the back of
Mr.
JENNER. Next is Commission Exhibit No. 1010, which is a photograph of a tire
imprint. On the evening of April 10 or the next day, April 11, when it was
light, did you tour around General Walker's home with him or without him?
There was a search made to see----
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; there was.
Mr.
JENNER. To find some identification in the way of automobile tire impressions?
Mr.
SURREY. It is my impression that the police were looking primarily for a casing
from a shell. I did not see them take any--
--
Mr.
JENNER. So that the particular portion of the
Mr.
SURREY. I wouldn't know where it was in the area.
Mr.
JENNER Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Those have all been formally introduced, Mr. Jenner?
Mr.
JENNER. No; they have not, Mr. Chief Justice. If it suits your convenience I was
going to offer all exhibits at once, so I don't overlook any.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes; very well.
Mr.
JENNER. Thank you. Some of the exhibits the witness has identified have already
been introduced. They were exhibited to Marina Oswald.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes; I recall.
Mr.
JENNER. Would you help us, also--I hand you a map of Dallas, which we will mark
Commission Exhibit No. 1013 or I should correct myself--I hand you what purports
to be a map of Dallas.
There
is indicated by brush pencil a cross in the center of that map as representing
the area of the residence of Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker, resigned, at
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1013 for identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; that is correct. That is the area.
Mr.
JENNER. That is a scale map of
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, you received a telephone call from General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. The evening of April 10. It was about 9 o'clock? Please try to fix that
time as accurately as you can.
Mr.
SURREY. I would say it was closer to 9:15.
440
Page 441
Mr.
JENNER. And you arrived 15 minutes later?
Mr.
SURREY. 10 to 15 minutes later.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, would you very carefully, calling on your most accurate
recollection, recite for us--you came to the door, you entered, what did you.
see, who was there, and what was said to you by anyone, if anyone was
there--Just the course of events as best you are able to recall them that
evening. And I will try not to interrupt you.
Mr.
SURREY. When I pulled--I pulled up in front on Turtle Creek, got out of my car.
A police car was there.
Mr.
JENNER. Was there anything in addition to a police car?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER You pulled your car up on
Mr.
JENNER. Would you be good enough, when you refer to
Mr.
SURREY.
Mr.
JENNER. There was one squad car
there at that time?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; just as I was getting
out of the car, another squad car came up.
Mr.
JENNER. Turning to your plat, would
you put an "X" with a circle where you drove up?
The witness has now done that. All
right. Now, you are on
Mr.
SURREY. I parked and got out of my automobile, and walked up the front walkway
into the house.
Mr.
JENNER. I see. All right.
Mr.
SURREY. There were several policemen in the house, just arriving.
Mr. Walker was sitting at his desk in this back room.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Now
it will be helpful to the Commission--let's take this blank sheet of paper--you
draw us a floor plan, will you please, of General Walker's home, and we will
mark that Commission Exhibit No. 1014, so as to assist you in telling us what
you did.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1014 for identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. This is the ground floor.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Now, first let's
locate the house. It is a rectangle
that you have drawn. Is the rectangle facing the same as the rectangle marked
"
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is.
Mr.
JENNER. So that the lower portion is east?
Mr.
SURREY. Do we need these directions exactly, because that Turtle Creek Boulevard
winds all around.
Mr.
JENNER. All I want to do is tie it up with Commission Exhibit No. 1005.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is the same direction.
Mr.
JENNER. Realizing that you have that problem of obliqueness, but relating it
solely to Commission Exhibit No. 1005, the foot of Commission Exhibit No. 1014
represents an easterly direction, correct?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And the top a westerly direction. And the right, northerly, and the
left, southerly. All right. Now, we have it located. Which is the doorway into
General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. This is the this is the
front door. [Witness draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. You have now put two oblique lines on the line facing southerly.
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. And then as you enter, there
is a long hallway.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And which is the rear of the
house towards the alley?
Mr.
SURREY. Toward the north.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Now, in what room, if any of those rooms on the first floor, was General
Walker the night of April 10, 1963, when this incident occurred, as you learned
when you reached there?
441
Page 442
Mr.
SURREY. His desk was positioned right there.
Mr.
JENNER. You have now drawn a small but rather elongated rectangle, which appears
to be opposite two lines you have drawn which I take it represents a window.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And from what you learned from General Walker on that occasion in the
presence of the policemen, was he seated at the desk?
Mr.
SURREY. He was seated at his desk.
Mr.
JENNER. His back to the window you have drawn, or facing the window?
Mr.
SURREY. To the window.
Mr.
JENNER. So he was facing to the window?
Mr.
SURREY. No; his back was to the window.
Mr.
JENNER. He was facing away from the window?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And you have drawn a little circle by the figure a desk, indicating
where General Walker was seated?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And facing westerly?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, locate for us, put a circle with a cross, the wall, the of the wall
indicated by Commission Exhibit No. 1008.
Mr.
SURREY. It is right here, sir. [Witness draws.]
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Now, that is
shown, for the purpose of the to the left of the blank circle which the witness
drew to show General sitting at his desk. And
that area that is shown on--the wall shown on mission Exhibit No. 1009, I take
it, is precisely the other side.
Mr.
SURREY. The other side.
Mr.
JENNER. You have done that by showing an area?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Then we have that located.
Did
General Walker in your presence relate what occurred?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Tell us what he said about how it occurred, when he aware of it?
Mr.
SURREY. I walked in the front door, and there were several standing around in
various areas. I walked in through here.
Mr.
JENNER. When you say "through here" [witness draws two lines to
represent door. ]----
Mr.
SURREY. Through the front----
Mr.
JENNER. You came in from the south, the front, and you went down hallway?
Mr.
SURREY. It is not really a hallway. It is mostly glass doors here. I walked
through those glass doors.
Mr.
JENNER. You have put three strikes on your sketch.
What is that?
Mr.
SURREY. Those are glass doors.
Mr.
JENNER. You walked through the glass doorway.
You walked into room, the wail of which is shown on Commission Exhibit
No. 1009. Correct?
Mr.
SURREY. That is right.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Mr.
SURREY. And I went right through this room.
Mr.
JENNER. Into the room in which General Walker's desk is located?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. The wall of which on that side appears shown on Commission Exhibit No.
1008?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. All right
Mr.
SURREY. The General was sitting at his desk.
Mr.
JENNER. When you arrived?
Mr.
SURREY. When I arrived.
Mr.
JENNER. Was he facing----
Mr.
SURREY. He was----
Mr.
JENNER. Westerly?
442
Page 443
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, talking to a policeman
in uniform. And I walked in and I
said, "What happened? What's
going on?" And he pointed to
this hole in the wall.
Mr.
JENNER. Shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1008?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes. And I facetiously said, "Oh, you found a bug."
Mr.
JENNER. Would you explain your facetious remark?
I don't get the fact that it is facetious.
Mr.
SURREY. Well, actually, it may not be. It
is a common joke around the General's house that there may be microphones.
Mr.
JENNER. That kind of a bug?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. That is, you saw the hole in the wall and you remarked facetiously that
he had discovered the house had been bugged by an electronic device?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; and, therefore, had chopped a hole in the wall.
And
he said, "No; I have been shot at."
And he pointed to the hole in the window.
Mr.
JENNER. Which is shown on Commission Exhibits Nos. 1007 and 1006?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct. Except the
window was closed at this time both casements were together.
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; and there is a screen on that window?
Mr.
SURREY. I believe there is.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
Mr.
SURREY. And then----
Mr.
JENNER Excuse me, sir. That would be the window which is the lower of the two
sets of strikes appearing on the northerly line of your Exhibit No. 1014.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes. I will mark it with an "A" and a title.
Mr.
JENNER. Good.
Mr.
SURREY. And then a policeman asked him a question, and I noticed that his arm
was bleeding.
Mr.
JENNER. General Walker's arm?
Mr.
SURREY. General Walker's arm, was bleeding in four or five places.
Mr.
JENNER. How was he dressed?
Mr.
SURREY. In a dress shirt of a color, as I recall, but It was not a sport
shirt--and slacks.
Mr.
JENNER. It was not a uniform of any character?
Mr.
SURREY. No; and without a tie.
Mr.
JENNER. Short sleeved or long sleeved?
Mr.
SURREY. Long sleeved, rolled up.
Mr.
JENNER. And his right arm, was it?
Mr.
SURREY. His right arm, yes; on his forearm.
And----
Mr.
JENNER. Was he bleeding profusely?
Mr.
SURREY. No. And he said "The jacket of the bullet must have come apart when
it went through the window." And he brushed plaster--I assume it came from
this wall out of his hair, which was in his hair, also.
Mr.
JENNER. What color hair does General Walker have?
Mr.
SURREY. Brown; a dark brown.
Mr.
JENNER. He has a fairly full head of hair, does he?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And plaster and that sort of thing would be quite apparent, would it, to
anyone who saw it in his hair?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And you noticed it?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And you noticed him brushing plaster out of his hair?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, that leads me to ask you this, Mr. Surrey: That bullet hole is how
high from the floor? I am showing you now Commission Exhibit No. 1009.
Mr.
SURREY. You mean how high is the hole----
Mr.
JENNER. From the floor.
Mr.
SURREY. From the floor? Well, the police went into the next room and so did I,
and sighted through the hole in the wall to the window.
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Page 444
Mr.
JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. And when Walker sat down at his desk, it went right through his head.
Mr.
JENNER. So he was seated on a chair substantially the height of the one you are
seated on?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, and he is approximately a little taller than I am.
Mr.
JENNER. He is a little taller than you are.
So that would be about 4, 4 1/2 feet. Tell the Commission the distance
from the wall, the point at which you have marked an "X" with a
circle, and the place at which General Walker's chair was located.
Mr.
SURREY. I would say 18 inches.
Mr.
JENNER. He was that close?
Mr.
SURREY. To the wall there; yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. So that the representation you have made on Commission Exhibit No. 1014
is distorted?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it is. The desk was right up against the wall, and he was seated in
the middle of the desk.
Mr.
JENNER. His chair was much closer to the wall than would appear to have been as
you have roughly diagramed on Exhibit No. 1014?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. In other words, he was close enough to the wall when seated
at that chair so that when a bullet penetrating the plaster wall could have
splattered plaster into his hair?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Proceed, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. So I went over and looked at his arm, and there was a piece of metal in
one particular spot in his arm, that I noticed, in addition to the other
scratches, and I went looking for some first aid equipment and found tweeze
upstairs, and came back downstairs and picked that piece of metal and two others
out of his right forearm.
Mr.
JENNER. And what was done with those pieces of metal?
Mr.
SURREY. They were--I believe the police took them.
Mr.
JENNER. But you recall that you, in fact, yourself took the pieces of metal from
General Walker's right forearm?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. And--all right. Go ahead, sir.
Mr.
SURREY. Well, then it became just a matter of the police questioning the general
and myself. I don't recall which
detective or which policemen and myself went out in the back and looked in the
back area.
Mr.
JENNER. Is that what you did next, after you took the metal out of General
Walker's forearm?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. You immediately went out of the house----
Mr.
SURREY. Not immediately; no. We
talked. I would say within 2 or
minutes.
Mr.
JENNER. But you did not go into any other room?
That is what I am getting at first. You went outside first?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't recall if we went in the other room then or later on.
Mr.
JENNER. When you say the other room, it is the room opposite the one and to the
left of the one shown on your diagram----
Mr.
SURREY. As I recall, I merely looked
around the separation here when they said that the bullet came clear through
into the other room.
Mr.
JENNER. Who said that?
Mr.
SURREY. One of the policemen.
Mr.
JENNER. And did you go around and
look then?
Mr.
SURREY. I just looked around the
doorway; yes.
Mr.
JENNER. What did you find when you
looked around--what did you see?
Mr.
SURREY. I saw these books stacked,
as shown in this picture.
Mr.
JENNER. Identify the picture,
please.
Mr.
SURREY. Exhibit No. 1009.
Mr.
JENNER. Had--you mentioned a bullet
as having been found.
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Page 445
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, the policeman said he
had found that bullet, on top of the packages.
Mr.
JENNER. Shown in Exhibit No. 1009?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Was that portion of the
bullet exhibited to you on that occasion?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. You did not see it?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. Was the statement that the bullet had been found on the opposite side of
that wall made in the presence of General Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes
Mr.
JENNER. What did General Walker say when that statement was made in his
presence, if anything?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't recall that he made
any statement.
Mr.
JENNER. Did he say anything about
where the spent bullet had been found?
Mr.
SURREY. Not at that time, no.
Not to me.
Mr.
JENNER. Well, did he say it to an
officer in your presence?
Mr.
SURREY. Not that I recall.
Mr.
JENNER. Was it uttered by him at all
in your presence on that evening?
Mr.
SURREY. Not that I recall.
Mr.
JENNER. That is, that the spent
bullet had been found on the opposite side of the wall next to which he had been
sitting?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I think the policeman said it, and that is all that was said.
Mr.
JENNER. But it was said in General Walker's presence?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was.
Mr.
JENNER. What did the policeman say?
Mr.
SURREY. He said the bullet went clean through the wall and they found it laying
on the packages in the other room.
Mr.
JENNER. Did he say they found it or "I found it"?
Mr.
SURREY. He said, "I found it" as I recall.
Mr.
JENNER. Proceed in your chronology, please.
Mr.
SURREY. That is all there was to it. Then he started getting calls from newsmen,
and newsmen coming to the door.
Mr.
JENNER. First, you went out and looked around the premises.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; but it was quite dark at this time, and they said, "We will
come back in the morning."
Mr.
JENNER. I should have asked you this. Perhaps I just assumed it. Was it dark
when you arrived at General Walker's home?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was.
Mr.
JENNER. When does it get dark in Dallas, Tex. in this area in the spring?
Mr.
SURREY. I would say 7.
Mr.
JENNER. Do you have daylight saving time in Dallas?
Mr.
SURREY. No; we don't.
Mr.
JENNER. And you are on what time?
Mr.
SURREY. Central standard.
Mr.
JENNER. Central standard time?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Well----
Mr.
SURREY. It is 2 hours from here.
The
CHAIRMAN. Two hours from here when we have daylight savings.
Mr.
SURREY. You have daylight saving now?
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Only 1 hour then.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. After looking around, you
say newspapermen began to come.
Mr.
SURREY. That is right.
Mr.
JENNER. And interview General
Walker?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. In your presence?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. And in the presence of the
policemen?
445
Page 446
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. When did you leave General Walker's home that night?
Mr.
SURREY. I stayed that night.
Mr.
JENNER. Did you hear General Walker being interviewed?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. What did he say about what had occurred, if anything?
Mr.
SURREY. He said, "Somebody took a shot at me." This is the general.
tenor of the interviews as to what happened, and he said, "Somebody took a
shot at me." I
guess--"That is the closest I have ever been missed in 30 years of military
service."
Mr.
JENNER. Did he say anything about whether he was seated--whether he had been
moving about?
Mr.
SURREY. No; he said he had been seated at his desk when it happened.
Working on his income tax.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, Mr. Surrey, was there an occasion preceding October---April 10,
1963, that you noticed an automobile and some people in the automobile in and
about General Walker's premises?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; that was 2 nights before, on Monday evening.
Mr.
JENNER. That would be April 10?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. I mean April 8, I am sorry.
Mr.
SURREY. April 8; yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. What time?
Mr.
SURREY. About 8:30 to 9. I am not
sure about what time it was.
Mr.
JENNER. I take it, then, it was dark?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; it was.
Mr.
JENNER. And tell the Commission what led up to that, what you said, and what you
did. This incident that you have in
mind.
Mr.
SURREY. I was coming from my home, came down Turtle Creek Boulevard passed in
front of the generate house, and took a right-hand turn on Avondale,
to come up to the alley.
Mr.
JENNER. Have we put Avondale into your plat?
You are now turning to Commission Exhibit No. 1005. [Witness
draws.]
Mr.
SURREY. The normal route into the parking lot behind the general's house----
Mr.
JENNER. He does have a parking lot?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; this is the parking area back in here.
Mr.
JENNER. Now, would you crossline that, so we know it is the parking lot?
[Witness draws.]
That
is fine.
Mr.
SURREY. I came up Turtle Creek Boulevard and turned right on Avondale prior to
turning again up the alleyway, to go into the parking lot in back of General
Walker's house. And I noticed a car
parked 30 feet--about 20 yards actually----
Mr.
JENNER. You have now drawn a rectangle on the edge of the sheet of paper,
Exhibit No. 1005, marked with the letter "N."
Would you write the word "car" in there?
The
CHAIRMAN. What is this designed to establish, Mr. Jenner?
We are getting a little afield, it seems to me.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Surrey, Mr. Chief Justice, was interviewed and related this
particular incident, and we want to dissipate any possibility--I don't want to
put it this way----
The
CHAIRMAN. If it has some relevancy, all right.
But let's don't take too long, because it is getting to be quite
collateral. Go right ahead.
Mr.
SURREY. Well, the gist of the matter is that two nights before the assassination
attempt, I saw two men around the house peeking in windows and so forth, and
reported this to the general the following morning, and he, in turn, reported it
to the police on Tuesday, and it was Wednesday night that he was shot at.
So that is really the gist of the whole thing.
The
CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr.
JENNER. I show you an exhibit marked Garner Exhibit No. 1. At any
446
Page 447
time prior to April 10,
1963, were you familiar with the person who is shown on Garner Exhibit No. 1?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. When I say familiar, I mean did you know of or had you seen consciously
a person with that physiognomy and physical appearance?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I have not.
Mr.
JENNER. That is a side view.
I
show you Commission Exhibit No. 520. The
man in the center--had you prior to April 10, 1963, ever seen a man with that
physiognomy, facial showing, and body?
Mr.
SURREY. No.
Mr.
JENNER. All right, sir. I take it,
then--I ask you this question. Neither
of the two men that you saw in that automobile on the 8th of April 1963, at
least to your present recollection, was the man shown on Garner Exhibit No. 1,
and Commission Exhibit No. 520?
Mr.
SURREY. I don't believe either of them was.
Mr.
JENNER. All right.
The
CHAIRMAN. May I ask--is this what you spoke of as the book?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. I notice on here that there is no price of any kind.
You say you sold this for $5?
Mr.
SURREY. That was an after thought. The
original intent was not a sale.
The
CHAIRMAN. Was it ever advertised to the public as for sale from $5?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
The
CHAIRMAN. Where was it advertised?
Mr.
SURREY. In just a flier that we included with some materials we were mailing
out.
The
CHAIRMAN. I see. I would like to ask
you if you were present when--at the time that they had--that there was the
demonstration against Ambassador Adlai Stevenson?
Mr.
SURREY. No; I was not.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did you have anything to do with that demonstration?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Were you present when the demonstration was against then Vice
President Johnson in Dallas?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
The
CHAIRMAN. Did you have anything to do with that?
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, we have marked the book as Commission Exhibit No.
1015.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1015 for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. Would you please examine it? You
need no more than just to look at it, so you will be able to testify that that
is a true and correct copy of the book you have testified about, published by
Eagle Publishing Co., which contains on its reverse cover side the letter to
which you made reference.
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; it is.
The
CHAIRMAN. What did it cost you to publish that?
Mr.
SURREY. It came to $2.50 and some cents. In
a limited quantity--3,000.
The
CHAIRMAN. Do you now propose to offer all of the exhibits?
Mr.
JENNER. Yes; I have three more FBI photos, and then I will have completed.
The
CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr.
JENNER. Mr. Surrey, I show you three more photographs which are identified first
as Commission Exhibit No. 997. Would
you read the material that appears on the reverse side of that first, please?
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 997 for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. Looking now at the face of the photograph, Commission Exhibit No. 997,
does--do the inscriptions on the reverse side correctly describe that area of
General Walker's home and the Mormon church references?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; they do.
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Page 448
Mr.
JENNER. You are familiar with that area?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. And its physical appearance, except for the foliage on the trees, is as
that area looked on the night of April 10, 1963?
Is that correct?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct.
Mr.
JENNER. I hand you Commission Exhibit No. 1016.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1016 for identification.)
Mr.
JENNER. Read the inscription on the reverse side, please. You are familiar with
that area shown on the photograph?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; I am.
Mr.
JENNER. Do the descriptions on the reverse side of the photograph correctly
describe that area?
Mr.
SURREY. With the exception that I do not know these cars and so forth.
Mr.
JENNER. I am talking about the area.
Mr.
SURREY. The physical area; yes, they do.
Mr.
JENNER. And that area looks the same today as it did on the evening of, April
10, or the day of April 10, 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. I now hand you the last of these, Commission Exhibit No. 1017, and ask
you first to read the inscription and then examine the photograph.
(The
document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1017 identification.)
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir; these are substantially correct.
Mr.
JENNER. As of today, as well as as of April 10, 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. All right. Now, Mr. Chief Justice, I offer in evidence the various
exhibits which we have identified in the record with the exhibit numbers, and
ask that the exhibits take the exhibit numbers I recited in each instance as to
each exhibit, being Exhibits Nos. 996 through 1000 and 1002 through 1017.
The
CHAIRMAN. They may all be admitted under those numbers.
(The
documents heretofore marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 996 through
1000 and 1002 through 1017 were received in evidence.)
Mr.
JENNER. That includes, Mr. Chief Justice, the diagrams which the witness has
prepared for us.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. As I reported to you, Mr. Chief Justice, the file on the Walker incident
reached us about 20 minutes before we opened this morning. I think I have
covered everything. Could I have the
privilege of 5 minutes to take a look?
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. I will do it very quickly.
The
CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. Who is Mr. Coleman? Do you
know a man by that name?
Mr.
SURREY. Not personally.
Mr.
JENNER. Walker Kirk Coleman.
Mr.
SURREY. As I just read on the back of your exhibit, he is the boy that reported
seeing several automobiles at the time of the assassination.
Mr.
JENNER. That is immaterial to this issue.
You
have never seen either of the two men you have mentioned before or since the
occasion you saw that automobile with the two men in it on the evening of April
8, 1963?
Mr.
SURREY. Not to my knowledge. I never
was very close to them.
Mr.
JENNER. Were you able to--what kind of an automobile was it, do you know?
Mr.
SURREY. It was a Ford, a new Ford at
that time.
Mr.
JENNER. Sedan?
Mr.
SURREY. Four-door sedan.
Mr.
JENNER. And it was new?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes.
Mr.
JENNER. To your knowledge, have you
ever seen that automobile before or since?
448
Page 449
Mr.
SURREY. No, sir.
Mr.
JENNER. What color was it, if you noticed?
Mr.
SURREY. It was either a dark brown or a maroon.
Mr.
JENNER. You followed it awhile and then gave up the chase?
Mr.
SURREY. That is correct. Actually,
they made a turn which--I am familiar with downtown Dallas--and they made a turn
which would indicate they were doubling back or not going in a straight
direction. And I thought perhaps I had been spotted in my convertible.
So I left them there.
Mr.
JENNER. I will close, Mr. Chief Justice, by asking the witness--was the Mormon
church in session? Had there
been----
Mr.
SURREY. There had been services.
Mr.
JENNER. The evening of April 10?
Mr.
SURREY. They were still dispersing.
Mr.
JENNER. When you arrived at approximately 9:30 in the evening of April 10, were
people still leaving the Mormon church?
Mr.
SURREY. Yes; they were.
Mr.
JENNER. I have no more questions.
The
CHAIRMAN. That will be all, Mr. Surrey. You
may be excused now.
The
Commission is adjourned.
(Whereupon,
at 12:20 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
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