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Duran,
Sylvia HSVA Volume III SELECT
COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS Name:
Silvia Tirado (Duran)
Date: June 6, 1978 Time:______________
Address:____________________
Place:____________________
____________________ Interview: Cornwell:
Would you like to state your name? Tirado:
Silvia Tirado Bazan. Cornwell:
And where's your present home address? Tirado?
Avenida Universidad 1900 Edificio
12 Departmento 402
Colonia Numero De Terrenos Cornwell:
For the record, my name is Gary Cornwell, and
with me here is Ed Lopez, Harold Leap and Dan
Hardway. We represent the
House Select Committee
on assassinations of the Congress of the United
States. Also with us here
today representing
the Mexican Goverment is Honorio Escondon, Dr.
Alfonso Orozco Contreras. Today
is June 6, 1978
and the time is approximately 5:45 in the afternoon.
Would you tell us what your date and place of birth is? Tirado:
22nd of November, 1937. Cornwell:
You speak English so if you like my questions Interviewer
Signature______________________________________ Typed
Signature: Gary Cornwell Date
Transcribed: br 6-19-78 Page
7 7 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
2.
translated we'll be happy to, and likewise, if you'd like to
answer in English that would be fine, or if you'd rather
answer in Spanish, we'll translate it. Tirado:
I try to speak in English. Cornwell:
All right. If you have any
question about the what I phrase
something or you don't understand it, simply ask and Mr. Lopez
will translate it for you.
Your name in 1963 was what? Tirado:
Silvia Tirado de Duran. Cornwell:
And your husband at that time was who? Tirado?
Horacio Duran. Cornwell:
Are you presently employed? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Where's that? Tirado:
Social Security. Cornwell:
Prior to that, what jobs did
you hold? Tirado:
A long while, Social Security. I
used to write. Cornwell:
And any other jobs? Have you
held any other jobs? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
At one time you worked for the Cuban Consulate. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Is that the only other job you ever held? Tirado:
No. Page
8 8 Page
3. Cornwell:
Well, let's say
back since about 1960, could you tell us
what the history of your employment is?
Have you had many
jobs? Tirado:
I don't remember exactly, but uh, I used to work for the
Olympic Games. I was a
translator for two months. And uh,
another three months I used to work for the, I don't know, it
was an Exhibit of Hispanic Art that was, I don't know he went
all over the world and I helped him to choose the pieces and
as translator. I was married
in 1960. I separate in '68,
July '68 and I start working. Cornwell:
During 1963, did you hold any jobs during that year other than
your employment at the Cuban Consulate? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
When did you first obtain the job at the Consulate and how did
you obtain it. Tirado:
Well, because I was uh, coordinating the Cuban, the
Mexican-Cuban institute, the cultural Institute in '62, I
think, and that's where I met some people.
Yes. Cornwell:
That was a private organization, is that correct? Tirado:
It's not exactly private I
don't know because all the
countries have--there is the American Institute, there is the
Russian Institute, there is the French Institute.
It's
cultural relations between the countries. Cornwell:
Was that associated with the Mexican government? Page
9 9 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
4. Tirado:
I don't know exactly, but I think--you know that.
(Asks Orozco) (Translation)
The objective is to present culturally the different embassies
of Orozco
and consulates that are in
Cornwell:
What was you job with that organization? Tirado:
Coordinator. Cornwell:
And in connection with that, did you know any of the employees
at the Cuban Consulate? Tirado:
Yes, at the Cultrual Attache. Cornwell:
And what were the names of those persons? Tirado:
Teresa Proenza and Luis Alberu. Cornwell:
And who? Tirado:
Luis Alberu Cornwell:
Did you in any other way know any of t he other employees at
the Consulate? Tirado:
Yes, well I knew Azcue, Eusebio Azcue who was a consul, and
uh, Maria Carman Olivari -- she's dead. Cornwell:
She, in the summer of 1963, was a secretary.
Is that correct?
(If you nod you head, the recorder will not make any record of
what your answer is.) Tirado:
Yes. Page
10 10 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
3. Cornwell:
Would you then explain to us how it was that you obtained the
job at the Consulate? Tirado:
Because my friend Maria Carman, she was dead--she had an
accident, and during the funeral I told Azcue that if he wants
me to help him, for some people come from
him. And of course he says
yes. They need some people they
can trust, and I'd been working in the Institute.
So... Cornwell:
How was it that you knew Eusebio Azcue by this time? Tirado:
I don't remember, because he was uh, he was an Architect and
he knew a lot of people, friends of ours, I mean my husband
and I. Cornwell:
Had he lived in Tirado:
Yes, yes. Cornwell:
And, because of his occupation, he would have known your
husband. Is that correct? Tirado:
Yeah, more or less. Cornwell:
Your husband Horatio was also an architect at that time. Tirado:
Industrial designer. Yes,
sir. Cornwell:
Approximately when was it that you first obtained the job? Tirado:
the end of July or August, early August.
I don't Page
11 11 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
5.
remember exactly. Cornwell:
And for how long did you continue to work there? Tirado:
Three or four months. Cornwell:
How long after the assassination of President Kennedy did you
work there? Tirado:
Only two days. Cornwell:
During that period of time what were the hours of operation of
the consulate? Tirado:
It was about 9:30 or 10:00 to 2:00 and in the afternoon about
5:00 to 8:00 or something. If
we have a lot of work, we
stayed longer. Cornwell:
The hours were 10:00 to 2:00 and then 5:00 to 8:00.
Is that
correct? Tirado:
Yes, that's true. Cornwell:
Was the Consulate open for visitors during both of those sets
of hours? Tirado:
No, it was just in the morning. Cornwell:
Would you mind sketching for us what the physical layout of
the Consulate looked like at that time?
(pause) You have
drawn a rectangular shape. What
formed the outside of it?
Was it a solid wall around the outside?
Was the outside of
the premises a wall? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
All right. And we'll just
mark it the way you Page
12 12 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
7.
drew it. In the lower
left-hand corner, there is a small box
you drew. What is that? Tirado:
The consular. Cornwell:
That's the consulate's office? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
All right. We'll just put a
one in that box, so we'll know
that's the consulate's office. Then,
the door was... where,
on the corner?..you remember the name of the streets, still
today? Tirado:
This is Tacubayo. this is
Francisco Marquez. You want me to
write it down? Cornwell:
If you remember, yes. Tirado:
Here were the houses. Cornwell:
All right. You've labeled
three sides of the building with
street names and on the fourth side which on the top of the
drawing, you said they are houses. Correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
What is in the long triangular shape on the drawing above the
Consular office? Tirado:
It was the commercial office. Cornwell:
All right. We'll just put a
two in there. That's.. Tirado:
And here was the cultural office. Cornwell:
And behind that, we'll mark it with a three, was the cultural
office. In the center of the
drawing Page
13 13 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
3.
is what? Tirado:
The Embassy. Cornwell:
All right. We'll put a four
in that. That's the Embassy.
And what's the small box in the lower right-hand corner? Tirado:
I don't know how to say it in English. Cornwell:
An entryway? Lopez:
Housekeeper. Cornwell:
Oh, a housekeeper? Okay.
We'll put a five in there. What
is
all the rest of the space inside the premises? Tirado:
Garden, it was garden. And
here was the entrance for the
cars. Cornwell:
And where you indicated there was an entrance for cars, we'll
mark that seven. And all the
interior space which was garden,
we'll mark with an eight. Tirado:
Down here there was a movie room. Cornwell:
Where, behind the...? Tirado:
Behind the cultural room? Cornwell:
Want to draw that? Tirado:
No, because this is the first floor. Cornwell:
Oh, it was on the second floor. Tirado:
Yeah. On the first floor was
a projection...movies Page
14 14 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
9. Cornwell:
Were the space which we marked one, two, three and also four,
were they all two-story? Tirado:
Yeah. Cornwell:
Okay. And above the space
marked one, what was there? Tirado:
The Consulate. Cornwell:
So it was on two floors. Tirado:
No, there was another floor over here but it was belongs to
the commercial... Only on the first floor was the Consultae. Cornwell:
I see. What would be behind
the Consulate on the first floor?
In this area marked two? Tirado:
I don't remember. Cornwell:
You don't remember. So, where
we marked two, that was a
second story in that area. Correct? Tirado:
Warehouse perhaps. Cornwell:
Just a storage area or something like that, perhaps, in the
lower area marked two. In the
space marked number one, which
was the Consular's office, who all occupied that area? Tirado:
Well, Consul, the Vice Consul and the secretary. Cornwell:
Which was you. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
During the time that we're interested in.
Page
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Tirado Interview Page
10.
The Consul's name of course was Eusebio Azcue.
The Vice
Consul's name was what? Tirado:
I don't remember. Cornwell:
All right. Tirado:
This was Consulate. Cornwell:
All right. You have divided
the area that we originally
marked number one into two units. The
smaller unit indicates
where the Consul sat and you sat in a larger reception area
in the front?
All right. And then, behind
the Consul's office, was there
another door? You marked that
with a heavier area, and that
would be where he could walk out into the courtyard.
Is that
corret. So if you wanted to
get into the Consul's office,
including the reception area from the courtyard, you needed to
walk through the Consul's office. Is
that accurate? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Now, what kind of a door was at the corner, the lower
left-hand corner here, so that if one were to walk from your
office to the street, what kind of door was that?
Glass,
wood, solid, could you see through it? Tirado:
No, it was solid. I don't
remember exactly, but perhaps I was
wood. But it was solid. Page
16 16 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
11. Cornwell:
You don't remember being able to see out on the street? Tirado:
No, no. Cornwell:
Okay. Lopez:
You enter the Consulate right, in here? Tirado:
Uh huh. Lopez:
And your office would be right around here.
Right? Tirado:
My desk was here. Cornwell:
You have drawn a small box now inside the larger half of the
area we originally marked area number one, that's where our
desk was? Tirado:
Yes. Lopez:
From where you sat to the entrance into the office where you
were, where would the entrance into the office be?
Not into
the whole consulate, but just into your office? Tirado:
It was open. Lopez.
Okay, it was open. Tirado:
You would enter here. Here
was the stairs for the second
floor, No?--and here I think there were chairs, or something
like that. For the people who
were waiting. And the desk was
here. Lopez:
Okay. Where would the
entrance to your office be? Tirado:
Here, or here. Lopez:
Just to your office, not to the Consul's office.
Page
17 17 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
12.
It would be at the same entrance? Tirado:
Yes. Lopez:
And from where you sat, you couldn't see outside at all? Tirado:
No. Lopez:
You couldn't see any area in the yard?
There was no glass. Tirado:
No. I can remember glass, a
window, yeah. I can remember
windows here, and perhaps here, but I don't remember. Cornwell:
Okay. There may have been
windows for you to see out in the
street? Tirado:
Yeah, but I couldn't see outside because perhaps they were
very high. Cornwell:
While Mr. Lopez was asking you questions, he drew a diagonal
line across your office space. Does
that represent anything?
That line should not have been drawn, is that correct? Tirado:
yeah. (Laughs.) Cornwell:
Now, did you know a Teresa Proenza? Was
she employed at the
Consulate or the Embassy. Tirado:
The Embassy. She was the
Cultural Attache. Cornwell:
She would have worked in the area marked number four?
Is that
correct? Tirado:
Well, yes. But this was, this
construction was uh,
afterwards. This was the
Embassy and the Consulate and
building was under construction,
Page
18 18 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
13.
constructed. A building. Cornwell:
Constructed? Tirado:
Later. It was the old
building. Cornwell:
Did she work there during the same period of time you did? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
At the period where did she work? What
area? Tirado:
Here. Cornwell:
That's the area we marked number three on the diagram.
Did
you know a Louisa Calderon? Tirado:
Louisa? Yes, she was in the
commercial... Cornwell:
And where would that be on the diagram?
In the area we marked
number two? Tirado:
I think her office was exactly above mine.
She was a
secretary. And I think it was
above. Cornwell:
Either above the area we marked one, or the area marked two,
but on the second level. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Do you know the names of any other employees who worked there
at the time? Tirado:
No, I don't remember. Cornwell.
The man named
Mirabal, he was to replace Eusebio Azcue, is
that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Page
19 19 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
14. Cornwell:
And do you recall aproximately when he arrived in
and began to learn the job so he could take it over from
Eusebio Azcue? Tirado:
I didn't understand, what did you say please? Cornwell:
Do you remember approximately when he arrived?
And began to
learn the work from Azcue. Tirado:
No, some weeks earlier, I don't remember. cornwell:
Would it be accurate to state that your best memory as you
told us when we spoke to you informally before we turned the
tape recorders on, that he was already there when you met the
man you later identified as Oswald? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Now. Tirado:
But he wasn't there when I started working at the Embassy, at
the Consulate. Cornwell:
Okay. So he much have arrived
in late summer or perhaps
September, or something like that. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Now, were there telephones in the office? Tirado:
Here. Cornwell:
You had one at your desk? Tirado:
this is the desk and here was a little table.
I think it was the telephone. Here
was the Page
20 20 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
15.
safe box. And here was the
Archivo. Lopez:
Archives. Cornwell:
So you've drawn two smaller boxes next to your desk.
One of
them was like a filing cabinet, or for storage of records? Tirado:
Yes. This one.
The Files. Cornwell:
And the other one was a table. Tirado:
No, here was the safe box. Cornwell:
Oh, a safe. I see, a safe.
And there was a phone at the
desk? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And did Azcue also have a telephone? Tirado:
Yes, it was the same but with an extension. Cornwell:
Extension. Tirado:
Here was the door. Cornwell:
All right. 1963, where were
you living? Did you have more
than one residence? Tirado:
Yes. Constituyentes 143. Cornwell:
And during what part of 1963 was that? Tirado:
When I moved there?
Before i started working, at the embassy.
But just a few
weeks... Cornwell:
So sometime in the summer of 1963. Did
you have Page
21 21 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
16.
a telephone at your home? Tirado:
Not at the moment that Oswald came. Because
we had just
moved. I think we moved in
July because we were separated in
July, also, July '68 and it is when the contract finished.
So
perhaps... Cornwell:
I see. Your rent contract ran
out in July of '68? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
About the same time that you and Horatio were divorced? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Did you, you say that because of your move, it took some time
to get a telephone in your home? Tirado:
Yes. cornwell:
And do you remember approximately when it was that you finally
got that in? Tirado:
At the assassination we had, a, let me see, we didn't have
telephone--days later. Cornwell:
It was sometime after the assassination that you first got a
telephone in this residence. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And do you by any chance recall the telephone number at the
Consulate? Tirado:
Oh, so many times I write it down. Perhaps
it was 11-28-45,
perhaps? Page
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Tirado Interview Page
17. Cornwell:
Could it have been 11-28-47? Tirado:
Perhaps. Cornwell:
When were you first advised that we wanted to speak to you? Tirado:
Last week. Cornwell:
And since that time, of course, last Wednesday, I believe it
was, we spoke to you informatlly, and told you basically what
we were interested in. And
learned most of what you could
remember about the events we were interested in.
Correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Apart from that, have you had any other oportunities to read
anything, or speak to anyone, in order to refresh your memory
about the events? Tirado:
Yes. In October of '76 some
journalist from the
Post came to interview me. Cornwell:
We are familiar with the story that appeared in the
Post at approximately that time. Apart
from that have you for
instance read the Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
When did you last have an occasion to read that? Tirado:
Oh, when Horacio told me you were coming, I was writing, and I
try to remember exactly and I'm starting saying that again,
the nightmare came, and so on Page
23 23 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
18.
and so on, and I wanted to check the dates. Cornwell:
So, last week sometime, you had a chance to read it over
again? Tirado:
No, not everything just the one little thing. Cornwell:
Just the part that dealt with
and that sort of thing. Correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Let me ask you, when you read that, was there any part of it
that seemed to you to be inaccurate? Tirado:
Inaccurate? Cornwell:
Not correct. Tirado:
Not correct? Yes, but with
the warren Commission, I get angry
when I start reading it because they make some afirmacionnes
(ph). Lopez:
Allegations or conclusions. tirado:
Yes. I don't like it.
So I tried to erase it. Cornwell:
Okay. What specifically about
the report was it that makes
you angry? Tirado:
That I was a--let me see how to say it--, I don't remember
exactly, but uh, I did more to Oswald when he was here than
was my job, that it was extra. Cornwell:
You mean part of the report that suggests that you went
beyond your duties at that Consulate, that you exceeded your
authority, and you thought that you did not do so.
Is that
correct? Page
24 24 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
19. Tirado:
Correct. Cornwell:
Is there anything else about the
resume of the facts that you felt was inaccurate, that made
you mad? Tirado:
I cannot answer that because I only read at that time two
pages. I didn't read the
whole thing. Cornwell:
Okay. In addition to looking
at that in order to refresh you
memory, have you had a chance to speak to any one else? Tirado:
No, it was just for checking my writing. Cornwell:
What writing was that? Tirado:
Well, I was trying to remember everything that happened in the
interrogatory. It was not
hard, I mean, what I felt, but uh,
what the police had done to me, so it was my but I'm writing,
I'm writing an autobiographia how do you say that, and this is
a chapter. Cornwell:
I see. Tirado:
(Laughs.) Cornwell:
Directing your attention than to approximately late September
of 1963, as we learned from you the other day, a man came to
the Consulate, a man who you later associated with pictures in
the newspaper and a name in the newspaper of the alleged
assassin of the President. Is
that correct? Page
25 25 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
20 Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Do you remember how many times he came to the Consulate? Tirado:
Three times. Cornwell:
Do you remember the date or dates upon which those three
visits occurred? Tirado:
No, I saw the application. You
showed me the other day, and
in the
remember, of course, until I read it. Cornwell:
All right. Do you have a
recollection whether it was all on
one day or on separate days. Tirado:
The same day. Cornwell:
On the very first visit, would you describe to us what the man
said and did, and what you said in response? tirado:
Yes, he, well, he enter and he ask me if I speak english and I
say yes, and then he start asking me about requirements to go
to Cornwell:
What did you explain? Tirado:
Well, that he needed to, he said that a transit visa so that
he needs a visa to the country that he was going, from, if it
was a Socialist country, the visa was given, as soon Page
26 26 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
21.
as he gets the other visa, and uh... Cornwell:
When he first asked about the requirements for a visa, did he
tell you that his objective was to go to
country? Tirado:
To the Cornwell:
Did you ever suggest to him that there was any alternative
means to acquire a visa other than the in-transit visa
requirement which you just described? Tirado:
I don't remember, I mean I hardly remember.
But what used to
say is if you want to go to
friends in
responsibility, if you get the visa.
That was one way, no?
And the other way was in-transit. Cornwell:
Okay. If I understand then,
you don't have a distinct
recollection about exactly what you said to Oswald, but you
asumed it was what you said to everyone who came in, which was
that you explained both processes, that they either must have
friends in
they got a visa from another country. Tirado:
No, if only they asked me. Because
they usually go there and
say, "I want to go to
transit, then I explain Page
27 27 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
22. Cornwell:
Okay, then. Let me see if I
can rephrase it and get what's in
your mind as best we can. Is
it your best recollection that
you did explain both alternatives to Oswald? Tirado:
I don't remember exactly, because I think he immediately says
that he wants to go to
Cornwell:
Okay. So then your best
recollection that you may have only
explained the in-transit visa process.
Is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornell:
But, I gather from the way you have answered the question,
there is still the possibility that you also discussed with
him going to
that second one. Is that
accurate? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Now, after this first basic explanation, what if anything did
he say or do? Tirado:
Well, I don't remember exactly. He
show all the paper that he
had, when he gave me the application when he came back,... Cornwell:
Okay. Wait a minute.
Just the first visit. Is
there anything
else about the first visit? Or, Page
28 28 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
23.
did he leave at that time and if he left, why did he leave? Tirado:
To have photographs of himself. Cornwell:
Okay. So your memory is that
on the first occasion you also
explained to him that he needed photographs and he left
shortly thereafter to obtain them. Tirado:
Yes, and perhaps, but I'm not very sure, that, uh, he said
that he was a friend of the Cuban Revolution, and when he
showed me all the scrap paper that he has. Cornwell:
All right. You don't remember
if that was on the first or the
second occasion. Correct? Tirado:
Yeah, I don't remember. Cornwell:
Nevertheless, he did leave to go get photographs, and he did
return? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Did he return with the photographs? Tirado:
With four photographs. Cornwell:
Four of them. tirado:
Yeah. Cornwell:
Were they all the same? To
the best of your memory, was he
wearing the same kind of clothes that he was wearing that day
in the photographs? Tirado:
Yes. Page
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Tirado Interview Page
24. Cornwell:
So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he
just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made? Tirado:
Yeah. I think that I already
explained (to) him where he
could take the photographs. Cornwell:
You told him some locations in town where ge could go?
Were
there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there? Tirado:
That I don't remember. Cornwell:
All right. But at any rate
you knew of some place at the
time, mentioned one or two places to him? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Correct?... Did you look at the photos when he brought them
back, careful about to be sure that it was the same man who
was standing in front of you? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And what did you do at that time? Tirado:
I filled out application. Cornwell:
You personally typed it, and did you type it in duplicate or
triplicate or just one copy? Tirado:
Duplicate. Cornwell:
And was the second copy a carbon? Page
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Tirado Interview Page
23. Tirado:
Carbon? Cornwell:
Did you have it twice or did you type one and make two copies? Tirado:
Only one. Cornwell:
And made two? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And what did you do with the photographs? Tirado:
Stapled them. Cornwell:
Stapled them? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
On top of the application. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
The application has a place on it for a date, is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Did you type in the date that was in fact that day? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Let's just talk hypothetically for a moment.
Is there any
chance that he was at the Consulate on more than one day? Tirado:
No. I read yesterday, an
article in the Reader's digest, and
they say he was at the Consulate on three occasions.
He was
in Friday, Saturday, and Monday...That's not true, that's
false. Page
31 31 Silvia's
Tirado Interview Page
26. Cornwell:
All right. Let's try a
different hypothetical. If the one
in
the Reader's Digest is definitely wrong, is it possible that
he first came on like a Thursday, and then came back on a
Friday? Tirado:
No, because I am positively sure about it.
That he came in
the same day. Cornwell:
Let me ask you then something about just the procedures or the
Consulate at the time. Would
it have been consistent with
your normal procedures for you to have typed the application
on his first visit, even though he didn't have a photograph to
put on it? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
In other words, before you started the process of typing it,
you were sure you had everything you needed to make it
complete. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Did he tel you where he was staying at the time? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Did you recall any problem with him not knowing any address,
where he was staying in Tirado:
No, because he say that he has no time to wait, he was in a
hotel and uh, I didn't ask the
address, in
because I mean didn't care. Cornwell:
You didn't have a need to know that? Page
32 32 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
27. Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Do you recall any problem coming up where he needed to know
it? For any other reason? Tirado:
Me to know his address? Cornwell:
No, for him to know. Did he
have any problem, did he have any
need to know it himself? Do
you remember anything along those
lines? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Going back to the second visit, is it your memory that you
typed the application in duplicate, you stapled the pictures at
the top of each copy, if that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Then what did you do with the application? Tirado:
Well, I used to put it in a file, and uh, I used to keep one
copy, another to send, the original, we used to send to
And I think I have another file. Cornwell:
Was he required to sign the application? Tirado:
He sighned it, yes. Cornwell:
Did he sign one or both of them? Tirado:
I think both, it has to be. Cornwell:
Was there any requirement in the Consulate that he do it in
any particular person's presence? Anyone
have to watch him
while he signed it? Tirado:
I don't know, I mean I just don't remember. Page
32 33 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
23. Cornwell:
As a hypothetical, did Azcue have to watch people sign the
applications? Tirado:
No. He was in his office. Cornwell:
So you could handle that all by yourself. Tirado:
yes. Cornwell:
Did he sign it in your presence? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Did anything else occur on the second visit, any other
conversation, or any other event? Tirado:
No, but I told you, it's uh, he said that he was a friend of
the Cuban Revolution. He show
me letters to the Communist
Party, the American Communist Party, his labor card, and uh,
he's working in
on his application, his licence number... Cornwell:
Marriage license? Tirado:
(Spoke in spanish.) Se dice
serup los recortes Cornwell:
Okay, we had to pause for a second to turn the periodico tapes
over. As I recall, you were
explaining the kinds of things he
brought with him. Tirado:
Yes, it was his labor card, form
pact, yes, that he was married with a Russian, and uh, a
clipping that he was with two policemen taking him by his
arms, that he was in a meeting to support
saying that he was a member of the Fair Play for Page
34 34 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
29.
Cornwell:
Do you recall what was said or what occurred that caused him
to produce all of these documents about his having a Russian
wife and his Fair Play For Tirado:
Just a minute. (Spanish--what
means recall?) Lopez:
Recordar.
He showed me all of these papers to demonstrate that he was a
friend of the revolution. Cornwell:
But did you say anything to him or did anyone else say
anything to him that made him feel he needed to produce this
kind of documentation. Tirado:
No, I don't think so. What I
said is that when he said he was
a member of the Party, of the Communist Party, the American, I
said why don't they arrange, the Party, your Party with the
Cuban Party, and he said that he didn't have time to do it. Cornwell:
Did you ask him why hw didn't just have the Communist Party
arrange his trip to Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
The Cuban Communist Party? He
just said he didn't have time? Tirado:
Yes. Because there was a
manner to do it. I mean, we get,
for instance, the visa directly Page
35 35 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
30.
from
coming and somebody say oh, yes, you have
you visa here. Cornwell:
Do you recall anything else happening on the second occasion?
Or have you related all that's in your mind on that? Tirado:
No. It was strange.
I mean because I you are a Communist and
you're coming from a country where the Communist Party is not
very well seen, and in
was not legal at that moment -- crossing the border with all
of his paper, it was not logical. I
mean if you're really
communist, you go with anything, I mean just nothing, just
your passport, that's all. And
that was something that I
didn't like it but... Cornwell:
So, you were a little suspicious of the amount of
documentation he brought? Tirado:
Yeah. Cornwell:
Did you say anything to him about that? tirado:
Perhaps I told him, what are you doing with all of this?
And
he said to prove I'm a friend of yours. Cornwell:
Did you discuss your suspicions with anyone else? Tirado:
With the consul. Cornwell:
With Azcue? Page
36 36 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
31. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Do you remember when that discussion occurred? Tirado:
It was afterwards. Cornwell:
Was that after his second visit as you recall? Tirado:
It was during his third visit. Cornwell:
During his third visit. All
right. Let's back up again for
just a moment. what time of
day as best as you recall did he
come to the Consulate the first time? Tirado:
Perhaps it was eleven o'clock or something like that, ten
thirty. Cornwell:
And the second time? Tirado:
About twelve, or eleven, no, about one o'clock. Cornwell:
Okay. The first one was
roughly late morning, and the second
one was early afternoon. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And then, when did he leave the second time? Tirado:
To get his Russian visa. Cornwell:
Would it have been the standard procedure in the Cuban
Consulate, to take the application, have him sign it, and have
it ready to go in the file if the request was in-transit, for
an in-transit visa, even though he did not have the visa from
the third country. Or from
another country? Tirado:
Uh, huh. Page
37 37 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
32. Cornwell:
All right. Tirado:
Yes, I did send it to Cornwell:
All right. Okay.
So, then you sent him in effect, to the
Russian Embassy. And it was
at that point after he left that
you spoke to... Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
No, you didn't speak to the Consulate at all yet. Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Had there been any problem at all yet? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
So far, it's like any normal visa appplication. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Would it have been consistent with the procedures in the
consulate or you to have allowed him to take one or both of
the applications typed up outside the Consulate? Tirado:
I don't remember very well if uh, there were only two copies.
I mean, one original and one copy, but uh, it could have
happened, but I don't remember. Cornwell:
Okay. To the best of your
memory then, the person who made
the application was not permitted to have a copy. Tirado:
I don't know. I don't
remember. Cornwell:
Okay. You're not sure.
But your tentative memory is that
would not have occurred. Page
38 38 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
33. Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Would you have ever allowed a person to take all of the
applications outside and attach the photos or sign them
themselves? Tirado:
Yes, because you may come, ask for the application and you may
keep it. Cornwell:
You, on occasion, would allow someone just to have a blank
copy. Is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. But he was different
because he did not speak in Spanish
so I have to fill it. Cornwell:
I see. If he would have
spoken Spanish or professed to having
someone with him who did speak Spanish, you might have allowed
him to take the applications and fill them out. Tirado:
Perhaps. Cornwell:
At least on other occasions you have done that, with other
people. Tirado:
That's something that I really don't remember. Cornwell:
There at least, there was no requirement that you type it
there in the office, as long as it got filled out. Tirado:
I think I have to type it. I
have to type it because I have
to make some observations, always. Cornwell:
Down at the botton? Tirado:
Yes. Page
39 39 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
34.
And I think that if you fill it in handwriting, I have to type
it, for, to send it to Cornwell:
So, at most, you would allow someone to fill it out and bring
it in so you could type it? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
If that procedure was employed, allowing someone else ot fill
it out, would you still be required ot check the photograph to
be sure it was accurate? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Would you still require the person to sign it in your
presence? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Just so we can keep out documents straight, let's just mark
now on the back a photograph and we'll ask you some questions
about it. We'll mark it as
Exhibit Number 2. This is a
photograph of what would appear to be a visa application.
Does it appear to be basically the type of visa application
that we have been speaking about? Tirado:
Yes. The numbers, I think
they're mine. Cornwell:
The numbers in the upper right-hand corner which are
hand-written? Tirado:
I think so. Page
40 40 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
35. Cornwell:
Those appear to you to be in your handwriting. Tirado:
Yeah, because when I file I write in the number, the following
number? Cornwell:
Okay. And on the very bottom
of the application, where it
says "para uso de la mision" that means it's filled in by
someone associated with the Cuban Government.
Is that
correct. Or the Consulate? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Who, according to the usual procedure, filled out that
portion. Tirado:
Me. Cornwell:
The other day when we talked to you informally, you read
through the words in that section. Is
that correct? Tirado:
Yes. I remember. Cornwell:
And your memory is that you in fact typed that section on this
application. Tirado:
Yes. I used to do this with
all the applications. Cornwell:
And under that, there is a signature. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Are you able to tell whose signature that is? Tirado:
No, I was thinking it was Mirabal, but no--I couldn't sign any
papers. Cornwell:
Okay. So it was definitely
not your signature? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Do you know whether, according to normal procedure, Page
41 41 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
36.
any particular person routinely placed his name at that
location? Tirado:
No, only the Consulate. People
in the Consulate. Cornwell:
What would be the purpose of a signature in the lower
right-hand corner? Tirado:
I don't know, perhaps to check that it was right as it was
written. Cornwell:
Did you ever see the Consulate or any other employee
routinely sign the applications at the location? Tirado:
I don't remember, but what I used to do was put the originals
in one packet and that was with a letter to the Minister, de
Relaciones exterister (spanish). How
do you say that? (Lopez
- Minister of Foreign Relations), and I used to give to the
Consul so he sign the papers and send it to Cornwell:
Okay. One copy stayed
in the Consulate and one was mailed to
Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Is it possible then that the signature in the lower right-hand
corner is someone in Tirado:
Perhaps that one that get it. Cornwell:
That receives it in Page
42 42 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
37.
which appears slightly over the name, the handwritten name,
Lee H. Oswald, when did that get laced on the application if
you know? Tirado:
Perhaps in the moment that he sign? Cornwell:
Was that part of the normal procedure?
Did you have a stamp
as you recall to do that? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And was that a means of authenticating the signature, that you
would stamp on top of it like that? Tirado:
I think so. Because let me
see.
This was signed by
This was the answer, perhaps. Cornwell:
So there's a date you just pointed to, around the middle of
the application reading 10-Oct. 1963 and you are assuming, I
take it, that that was the date placed on the document in
Tirado:
Perhaps but I don't know.
I don't know the date of when we send the application. Cornwell:
Or it was placed on there when you mailed it? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Do you know which? Tirado:
I don't know. Cornwell:
You don't remember which? Could
it have been the date upon
which the application was received Page
43 43 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
38.
in the Consulate here in Tirado:
In return. cornwell:
In return? Back from
Is that what you mean? Tirado:
Perhaps. I don't know that. Cornwell:
Could it have been the date you received it from Oswald? Tirado:
No, because it was the same date. Cornwell:
Okay. The only date on here
of receipt from Oswald was the
one near the top, the second line, which reads:
27 Sep. 1963. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
So I guess the best we can do is say that you don't have a
distinct recollection of how the 10th of October date would
have gotten placed on here. Correct? Tirado:
Yeah. Cornwell:
How long normally would it have taken between the receipt of
an application and the date that it would have been mailed to
Tirado:
Well, it depends on the flight. We
had, I don't remember in
that time, if we were three flights from
from
do, if we have a lot of work we wouldn't have sent it
immediately or,--valise diplomatica, How do you say it? Cornwell:
Diplomatic pouch. Page
44 44 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
39. Cornwell:
Would there have been some usual amount of time?
How much could it vary? Tirado:
The flights were Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I think.
And
uh, well, we send a bunch if, I think, I don't know, when what
day in the week was the 27th? Perhaps
if it was Wednesday, we
would send next Friday, or next Monday.
Or... Cornwell:
I have another photograph of just the upper left-hand corner
of the same document, which we'll mark as Exhibit 3 on the
back, and ask you if, to the best of your recollection, that
is a photograph of the man whom you saw on or about the 27th
of September? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
I don't understand. A moment
ago, did you say that there was
a normal time of the week that mailings to Tirado:
Would you please repeat the question? Cornwell:
Was there a usual day, did the mailings to
on one given day of the week? Tirado:
Yes, I don't remember exactly, but I think it was on Friday,
perhaps, that we make, we send applications.
Yeah, it was one
day to send all the applications. Cornwell:
All right. So, if we were to
tel you the 27th of Page
45 45 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
41. Cornwell:
What happened? Tirado:
Somebody took them to the Consulate. cornwell:
Okay. you said the main gate.
Was that the area that, on
Exhibit one, you marked as beign the door to your office, or
some other area? Tirado:
He was closed. In the
afternoon he was closed. But perhaps
he came... Cornwell:
The door on Area One was locked up. Okay? Tirado:
Yes. And then he was open. Cornwell:
Over near Number Seven, is that correct?
Where they let the cars in? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
There was a door there too? Tirado:
Yes. It was the garage and
another door. Cornwell:
And the doorman from that area brought him to your office? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
What occurred on that occasion? Tirado:
What? Cornwell:
What happened on that occasion. Tirado:
Well, he came in and he said that he already have his Russian
Visa and uh, he want to get his Cuban visa.
And I said that
that was not possible because he has to be first sent to
and then Page
46 46 Sylvia
Tirado Interview Page
41. Cornwell:
What happened? Tirado:
Somebody took them to the Consulate. Cornwell:
Okay. You said the main gate.
Was that the area
that, on Exhibit one, you marked as being the
door to your office, or some other area? Tirado:
He was closed. In the
afternoon he was closed. But perhaps
he came... Cornwell:
The door on Area One was locked up. Okay? Tirado:
Yes. And then he was open. Cornwell:
Over near Number Seven, is that correct?
Where they let the cars in? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
There was a door there too? Tirado:
Yes. It was the garage and
another door. Cornwell:
And the doorman from that area brought him ot your office? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
What occurred on that occasion? Tirado:
What? Cornwell:
What happened on that occasion? Tirado:
Well, he came in and he said that he already have his Russian
visa and uh, he want to get his Cuban visa. And I said that
that was not possible because he has to be first sent to
and then Page
47 47 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
42.
wait for the answer, no, it was necessary that he has to have
first a Socialist visa, the Russian visa.
And, uh,... Cornwell:
Did he show you his passport with a visa in it?
From the
Russian Embassy. Tirado:
No, No. I don't remember
exactly but what I remember is he
says that he already has his Russian visa and I said I don't
see it and well, I don't remember exactly what we discussed in
that moment. But, he was very
stubborn. So, I say, well, I'm
going to call to the Russian Consul, so I called the russian
Consul and I said hey, listen, here's a man that, he say that
he already got his Russian visa. And
he said, yes, I remember
it. He came to us for visa
but uh, the answer will be in
three or four months, that
was the usual time. Cornwell:
So as you recall, then, the person t the Russian Embassy said
in effect, no, he doesn't have it yet, he's only applied
for it. Is that right? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Okay. Go ahead. Tirado:
And uh, and I told him what the Russian Consulate says and
then, he was angry. He age
angry. And he insisted that he
was a friend of the Cuban Page
48 48 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
43.
Revolution, that he has already been in jail for
the Cuban Revolution, that uh, oh, that he
wanted that visa and that he couldn't wait for
so long time because uh, his Mexican visa was
finished in three days. So he
was insistent and uh,
I didn't have time and well, I couldn't make him
understand that. So, I went
to the Consul's
office and I explained to him, and would you please
come and talk with him? Axcue
came, Misrabel I
think he didn't speak English, so Azcue came and
told him those things, all the requirements that he
needs to fly to
was red and he was almost crying and uh, he was
insisting and insisting so Azcue told him to go away
because if he didn't go away at that moment he was
going to kick him, or something like that.
So,
Azcue went to the door, he opened the door and
told Oswald to go away. Cornwell:
Okay.
So he went to the door which was in the
area we marked 'one,' which was at the Consulate
Office? Tirado:
Yes...Remember, I was feeling pity for him
because he looked desperate. Cornwell:
He looked
desperate? Tirado:
Yes. Page
49 49 Silvia
Tirado Interview page
44. Cornwell:
So, you felt kind of sorry for him? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
At any time during these three contacts, did he
indicate to you that he could speak or understand
Spanish? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
During this period was your normal work week, did
it include Saturdays? Tirado
Yes. Cornwell
Is it possible that, in addition to his visits on
Friday, he also came back the following day on
Saturday mourning? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
How can you be sure of that? Tirado:
Because, uh, I told you before, that it was easy
to remember, because not all the Americans that
came there were married with a Russian woman, they
have live(d) in Russian and uh, we didn't used to
fight with those people because if you, they came
for going to
no? So we were nice to them
with this man we fight,
I mean we had a hard discussion so we didn't want
to have anything to do with him. Cornwell:
Okay. I understand that but I
don't understand
how that really answers the question.
In other Page
50 50 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
45.
words, the question is, what is it about the
events that makes you sure that he did not come
back on Saturday, and have another conversation
with you? Tirado:
Because I remember the fight. So
if he (come)
back, I would have remembered. Cornwell:
Did Azcue work on Saturdays? Tirado:
Yes, we used to work in the office but not for
the public. Cornwell:
Was there a guard, was there a guard out here at
the corner near number seven on your diagram on
Saturdays? Tirado:
Excuse me? Cornwell:
Was there a doorman out near the area that you
marked as number seven, on the diagram? Tirado:
Yes, but on Saturday he never let people ... Cornwell:
Never let people in. Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Not even if they came up to the doorman and didn't
speak Spanish? And were very
insistent? Tirado:
No,
because they could answer or something. They
could ask me for instance, no ? by the inter-phone. Cornwell:
They could do that on a Friday, though. Page
51 51 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
46 Tirado:
But what I remember is that Oswald has my tele-
phone number and my name and perhaps he show to
the doorman (Spanish). Cornwell:
When did you give him the telephone number and
name? Tirado:
In the second visit, perhaps. Cornwell:
Okay. Tirado:
I used to do that to all the people,
so they don't
have to come and to bother me. So
I used to give
the telephone number and my name and say "give me
a call next week to see if your visa arrived." Cornwell:
Well. Are you saying that
based on your memory
the guard was allowed to bring people in during the
five till eight o'clock at night uh, sessions
during the week but not on Saturdays? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Do you have a distinct recollection with respect
to telephone calls to the Russian Consulate, was
it just one call or was it more than one call? Tirado:
Only one. Cornwell:
Just one.
The ... I believe I asked you this, but just to
be sure, although the application was typed with Page
52 52 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
47.
a carbon to make two copies with one typing,
did he have to sign both independently?
Or did
you allow them to use a carbon to sign the paper? Tirado:
No, no. It was the original. Cornwell:
Two original signatures. All
right. Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Was anything said that you
recall at this time
which looking back on it indicated the possibility,
even on that date, Oswald had on his mind some
intension of killing the President of the United
States? Tirado:
No, I don't think so. Cornwell:
Let me read something to you, and ask you if it at
all refreshes your memory or if hour have a memory
of a conversation similar to this?
I don't believe I read this to you before, when
we talked the other day, or did I? Did
I rea
and excerpt from Daniel Schorr's book to you? Tirado:
No, you told me. Cornwell:
Okay. I'll read it to you
then at this time.
It's an excerpt from a book called Clearing the
Air, written by Daniel Schorr, published in the
follows:
"In and interview in July 1967 with a
British journalist, Comer Clark, Castro Page
53 53 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
48
(meaning Fidel Castro) said that Oswald
had come to the Cuban Consulate twice,
each time for about fifteen minutes.
The
first time, I was told, he wanted to work
for us. He was asked to
explain but he
wouldn't, he wouldn't go into details.
The
second time he said he wanted to free
from American imperialism. Then
he said
something like 'Someone ought to shoot
that President Kennedy.' Then
Oswald said,
and this is exactly how is was reported to
me, maybe I'll try to do it."
Do you recall any conversation like that in
either what was said to you by Oswald or that
was said by Oswald to Azcue or anyone else that
you might have overheard? Tirado:
No, I don't remember. Cornwell:
Did any part of that conversation occur? Tirado:
No, because I don't remember that he says he was
to go to work in
wanted to go in-transit. That's
what I remember. Cornwell:
What do you
think, well, first let me ask you,
do you think that conversation could have occurred
and you just forgot it? In
other words, is that
the kind of conversation which, if it occurred,
you would definitely remember it? Tirado:
Yes. Because in the fight
with Azcue there was
shouting and crying and things like that.
I could
miss something, but not, because even if would
say so, I mean, I could have heard, no, I mean Page
54 54 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
49
if you kill President you're not going to
change the whole system.
You see, that's why I give you answer,
even Azcue. I mean that's no
the, I don't think
so, that he had that conversation with anyone.
He was arguing. . . Cornwell:
Do you remember any part of the conversation
indicating that Oswald blaming the
or President Kennedy for his inability to get
to Tirado:
I don't remember but that could be possible. Cornwell:
In other words, if he's frustrated and he comes
to the Cuban Consulate, he might feel animosity
or anger towards various people. He
might be
angry at you, or Azcue, or at the Cuban Govern-
ment or at the Russian Government or perhaps the
United States Government, depending on how the
conversation went. What do
you recall about that?
Who was he angry at when told
he couldn't go to
Tirado:
He was angry at us. That's
why I called Azcue
Because he was not a strong man but anyway, I
didn't like to fight with him. He
was very angry
and he was blaming me and Azcue because he thought
it was in our hands to give the visa immediately,
and he couldn't understand that the visa has to Page
55 55 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
50
come from Cornwell:
You mentioned
earlier that you had discussed
with Azcue on this, as I understood this, during
the third visit with Oswald, the suspicion that
you had about the documents. Is
that accurate
or did I misunderstand? Tirado:
No, it was the third time when I told Azcue that
there was a man that bother me, that when I told
him about. this man, I mean because it was normal, I
used to that was my job, to attend people who
come in so I didn't have to bother the Consul
for every man who came, because there was a lot
crazy men from the
to go to Cornwell:
Okay. So, from what I
understand then, when you
went in to Azcue to bother him, since you normally
didn't do that sort of thing, yo gave him a sort
of background resume of your dealings with Oswald.
Is that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
And was it at that point that you told him of your
suspicion about the documents? Tirado:
I
think so. Cornwell:
What was his reaction? Azcue's? Tirado:
He was worrying. When he went
to my office. Page
56 56 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
51
he was very tranquil, hw was very polite, hw
was explaining things, very polite. And
uh,
he was starting to get angry when he saw that he
was a stubborn man, that he didn't want to under-
stand, and he said uh, I remember now, he said
you're not a friend of the Cuban Revolution, be-
cause if you are a friend, you have to understand
that we have to take care, to be very careful
with the people that are going to
you don't understand this, you are not friend of
the Cuban Revolution. And he
was shouting and,
I don't remember how long was this conversation,
but uh, they got really angry, both. Leap:
May I call you Silvia? Tirado:
Yes. Leap:
At any time during you conversation with the
Consul, did you discuss the possibility that
Oswald was a penetration agent? Intelligence
agent for a foreign power? Did
you discuss that
possibility? Tirado:
No. I don't think so because
we didn't have
time. Because this man was in
my office and
I was in Azcue's office so I couldn't leave him
many times alone. Leap:
Did you ever have conversations with Ascue out-
side of Oswald's presence relative to the issue? Page
57 57 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
52 Tirado:
Repeat the question please. Lopez:
Did you ever have a conversation with Azcue when Oswald was
not in the office about the possibility that he was an
intelligence agent for some country? Tirado:
No, no. I don't think so.
We only thought that he was a
crazy man, an adventurer, or something like that. Leap:
Did it ever enter your mind that that he was a penetration
agent? Tirado:
Perhaps. Perhaps, because it
happened, it happened sometimes
that somebody came and say this is a policeman or something
like that. Leap:
That's all the questions that I have. Tirado:
The only thing that I can say, it was that it was strange,
traveling with all of his documents just to prove one thing. Lopez:
Do you think now, looking back on what happened then, that he
may have been an intellegence agent? Tirado:
Perhaps. Cornwell:
Did anything else ever come to your attention?
That caused
that suspicion? Other than
just his presentation of the
documentation? Anything else
ever happen? Tirado:
With him? No, no.
The only thing that was strange is that if
you belong to the Communist Party, Page
58 58 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
53
any party. Your French, but
French could get Cuban visa but
Mexico, for instance, if you're Mexican and you're a member of
the party, of the Communist Party, you don't have to go and
ask for application visa because the party writes to the Cuban
Communist Party, and they
arrange everything. That was the
strange thing. There's no need. At
first, he said that he was
a Communist. That was
strange. Because it would be really
easy for him to get the visa through the Communist Party. Cornwell:
At any point in the conversations that you have told us about,
did Oswald say anything indicating that he really wanted to
stay in Tirado:
No. He just wanted to go and
visit and saw what was the
Revolution. Cornwell:
Okay. That's sort of what I
meant. In other words, he did
indicate that he didn't just want to pass through, that he
wanted to spend some time there. Is
that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
What do you recall about that part of the conversations? Tirado:
I told him that he get to
and there was a plane going to Page
59 59 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
54.
Russia at five o'clock, he has to stay in the airport, in the
Cuban airport. That he
couldn't go out. Cornwell:
Why didn't you tell him that? Tirado:
Because he was saying that he wanted to go to
and to see what the revolution had made. Cornwell:
Did you ever see him again, after the argument with Azcue? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Did you ever talk to him again? Tirado:
No. Cornwell:
Not in person nor by telephone. Tirado:
No, he never call He could
have called when I wasn't there,
but I used to get the message, if somebody answer, I used to
get a message. Cornwell:
Did anyone else overhear any of the conversations you have
described? Other than the one
time in which Azcue was
involved? Tirado:
Yes. Could be that people
from the Commercial Office, could
be Mirabal. Cornwell:
Was there anyone else physically persent in the Consulate's
office during those conversations as you can recall? Page
60 60 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
55. Tirado:
I can't remember. The only
thing that I remember is that it
was only Mirabal. Cornwell:
And did Mirabal come out in the reception area during the
conversations as you recall? Tirado:
No, I think he stay in his office. Cornwell:
But he could have overheard it at the time. Tirado:
Yes, everybody who was passing through, even in the streets,
they were shouting, really? Cornwell:
Were the windows up as I guess they might have been at that
time of year? Tirado:
(Didn't understand) Cornwell:
The windows would have been up? The
windows to the Consulate
Office would have been open? Tirado:
What? I.. Cornwell:
In other words, you're saying people on the street might have
overheard it? Tirado:
Yes, yes. If you were here
and there was always a police
here, they could have heard the shouting, the crying.
(Lots
of background, unintelligible.) Page
61 61 KENNEDY SELECT
COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS TAPE
2 Name:
Silvia Tirado (Duran)
Date: June 5, 1978
Time: Address:
Place: Interview: Cornwell:
You told us previously when we discussed informally with you
that you were sympathetic towards the Cuban Revolution during
the early 1960's-- Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell
Did you ever overhear any conversation either in the Consulate
or among any of the people you may have associated with
concerning the possibility of killing the President? Tirado:
No, because I think the people I used to know during that
time, they think like me, and I think the death of a man
doesn't make anything good, I mean, you have to change the
structures, I mean, it's just like a building, to?
The
President is like, I mean, for instance, a roof--not the top,
but if you take the top, the building still stands.
You have
to destroy the whole building, not one man.
If you kill the
man, you make a hero. So, is
no good. Cornwell:
What were your own feelings towards President Kennedy? Interviewer
Signature Typed
Signature Gary Cornwell
Date transcribed 6-26-78
By: br
Form #4A Page
62 62 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
2. Tirado:
Well, I like him. I mean, he
was very nice, he was very
intelligent. And I think of
the relations with
remember now, they were very good in the commercial area, the
cultural area. He came ot
They loved him. They liked
him very much. Cornwell:
And, what you're saying is, you're describing what you
understood to be the basic reaction of the Mexican people?
Is
that correct? Tirado:
Yes. Cornwell:
Was that feeling the same even among the part of the Mexican
people who were sympathetic towards the Cuban Revolution? Tirado:
Uh, translate, please, Ed. I
want to be sure of the question. Lopez:
Would you repeat the question, please? Cornwell:
Was the feeling that you just described as being that of the
Mexican people? Lopez:
(Translated question.) Tirado:
In general. Cornwell:
The same with respect to that part of the Mexican people like
yourself who were sympathetic to the Cuban Revolution? Lopez:
(Translated.) Tirado:
Well, yes, more or less. because
I mean, if you're uh, how
can I explain this, uh, if you're a President Page
63 63 Silvia
Tirado Interview Page
3.
of a country that is against uh, against
undeveloped countries, you don't love them, of course, but you
may see that is different, that he has been a good President,
that he was, I think he was ingenious with his
Progress, that he tried to have more friends, not like Dulles
who said we don't have friends, we have interests, things like
that. Do you know that
phrase? Cornwell:
One more time. Lopez:
(Speaks to Tirado in Spanish.) Dulles. Tirado:
He said once the
interests. (Speaks in
Spanish.) And Kennedy tried to
destroy
that phrase, saying we want to have friends.
And he was
changing the politics of |