On the left are buttons for additional testimony including medical personal from both Parkland Hospital & Bethesda Hospital. U. S. Military, Dallas Police Department, Secret Service & CIVILIANS.

WC Volume X Page 399.

TESTIMONY OF GLENN EMMETT SMITH

            The testimony of Glenn Emmett Smith was taken at 9:10 a.m., on April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building , Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas , Tex. , by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

            Mr. LIEBELER. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission to investigate the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

            I have been authorized to take your testimony by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to it by Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress No. 137.

            I understand that Mr. Rankin wrote to you sometime last week advising you that I would be in touch with you to take your testimony. I understand also that he included with his letter a copy of the Executive order and resolution just referred to, together with a copy of the rules of procedure for the taking of testimony which have been adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and joint resolution described above. Did you receive the letter from Mr. Rankin?

            Mr. SMITH. I did.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Those documents were enclosed with it, were they not? Three different documents in that letter?

            Mr. SMITH. [Hands papers to attorney.] I'd better let you look, for I don't know what is in there.

            Mr. LIEBELER.  Yes; they are. The general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent killing of Lee Harvey Oswald. We want to inquire of you today concerning any knowledge you may have about the alleged sale of a rifle by an individual thought to be Lee Harvey Oswald to one Robert Taylor.  We would also like to get from you any information that you have about Oswald's associates in Irving , Tex.

            Before we get to the details of that testimony, would you state your full name for the record?

            Mr. SMITH. Glenn Emmett Smith.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live, sir?

            Mr. SMITH. 1604 Argentia, apartment C.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Is that in Dallas ?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Where are you employed?

            Mr. SMITH. At Jack's Super Shell, Rock Island and Story Road , Irving .

            Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you been employed there?

            Mr. SMITH. Since the 25th of April of 1963.

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            Mr. LIEBELER. In what capacity do you work at the Shell station?

            Mr. SMITH. I am a drive attendant. I work the driveway.

            Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do prior to the time that you went to work for the Shell station?

            Mr. SMITH. I was an income tax consultant.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Worked in Dallas ?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you engaged in that?

            Mr. SMITH. Just through the tax months, from January 1 to the 15th of April.

            Mr. LIEBELER. What do you usually do?  Do you usually work service stations?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. How old are you, sir?

            Mr. SMITH. Fifty-three.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Are you a native of Texas ?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Have you lived all your life in Dallas ?

            Mr. SMITH. No. I have been here since 1936.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you live prior to that time?

            Mr. SMITH. Shawnee , Okla

            Mr. LIEBELER. Were you born in Oklahoma or born in Texas ?

            Mr. SMITH. Born in Texas .

            Mr. LIEBELER. Then moved to Oklahoma ?

            Mr. SMITH. Moved to Oklahoma .

            Mr. LIEBELER. Then moved back to Texas ?

            Mr. SMITH. Moved back to Texas .

            Mr. LIEBELER.   Do you know one Robert Taylor?

            Mr. SMITH. I think I do.

            Mr. LIEBELER.  How long have you known him?

            Mr. SMITH. Since I went to work, since the 25th of April 1963.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Is Mr. Taylor also employed at the Shell station where you worked?

            Mr. SMITH. Well, I don't know if he is going to be let out or not. He is off sick, and I understand that Mr. Smith has hired another man, which I know he got a man working. I don't know if he is going to let Robert come back.

            Mr. LIEBELER. But Mr. Taylor did work at the Shell station from at least April of 1963, up until sometime when he became ill, is that correct?

            Mr. SMITH. He was working there when I went to work, and he worked there steadily.

            Mr. LIEBELER. He became ill?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when did he get sick?

            Mr. SMITH. He has been off a week and a half now.  He went home sick Saturday a week ago.

            Mr. LIEBELER. He hasn't been at work since that time?

            Mr. SMITH. Well, he come back and worked 3 hours last Friday and had to go home again.

            Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of work does Mr. Taylor do at the station?  He is--is he a driveway attendant?

            Mr. SMITH. No; a mechanic.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You actually have a shop there at the Shell station?

            Mr. SMITH. We do minor repairs, no major, just minor repair.

            Mr. LIEBELER. How old is Mr. Taylor, do you know, possibly?

            Mr. SMITH. I think he is 49. I believe he told me he is 49.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. Taylor about a man who Taylor thought might be or was Lee Harvey Oswald?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I did not. I heard Mr. Taylor, if I may tell you this----

            Mr. LIEBELER.  I want you to tell me what you know about it.

            Mr. SMITH. There was an FBI man called out and talked to us, and I heard Mr. Taylor tell him between customers now, I was just catching little words, and not enough to make very much sense, but I did hear him tell that he had traded a rifle or bought a rifle or something from Oswald.

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            Now I didn't know Oswald. He showed us his picture, but I didn't know him. He had been through there but I didn't recognize him.

            Mr. LIEBELER. The FBI showed you Oswald's picture?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't recognize him?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            You see, sir--to my knowledge, I have never seen he or his wife.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear Mr. Taylor discussing this rifle that he bought from this fellow, before the FBI fellow talked to him?

            Mr. SMITH. No.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember when the FBI man came to the station?  Would that have been in about the middle of December of 1963?

            Mr. SMITH. I'd be afraid to commit myself. I don't remember when he was there. It's been about 2 or 3 months ago or something like that.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember the man's name?

            Mr. SMITH. No; I don't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Would it refresh your recollection if I suggested that his name was Morris J. White?  Do you remember that was his name or don't you remember?

            Mr. SMITH. I don't remember.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Don't you remember that you told the FBI agent that you had heard conversation that Taylor had purchased a rifle from some customer, and that that customer was thought by Taylor to be Lee Harvey Oswald?  Didn't you tell that to the FBI agent?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You did not?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir; absolutely not. I am absolutely positive.

            Mr. LIEBELER. The first time you ever heard anything about this rifle that Taylor was supposed to have purchased was when the FBI agent was interviewing Taylor , isn't that your statement?

            Mr. SMITH. That is right.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You never heard anything about it from Taylor or anyone else prior to that time?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER Did you discuss this question of the rifle with Taylor after the FBI agent was there?

            Mr. SMITH. Nothing more than he told me that let's see now, Bob said he had traded a rifle, and that is about all. We were busy, and he said he traded a rifle, and that was the day that he showed the picture to me, the picture that the FBI man showed me, and that was all that was said about it.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Taylor told you afterwards that the FBI agent had showed him a picture and this picture was supposed to be a picture of Oswald?

            Mr. SMITH. He showed both of us the picture.

            Mr. LIEBELER. He showed both of you the picture?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. And Taylor told you after the FBI agent left that the picture that the FBI agent showed you was a picture of the man from whom Taylor had purchased the rifle, is that correct?

            Mr. SMITH. He told the FBI man that. He didn't tell me that after he left, but he definitely told him that in my presence. I heard him.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any discussions with Taylor after the FBI agent left about this question?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any discussions with anybody else about it?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see the rifle that Taylor supposedly purchased from this man?

            Mr. SMITH. No.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did Taylor ever tell you what kind of rifle it was?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. And you never heard from anybody what kind of rifle it was?

            Mr. SMITH. I never heard anything about it at all.

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            Mr. LIEBELER. How well do you know Taylor ?

            Mr. SMITH. I never knew him until I went to work there. Just by working with him, that is all.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You never associated with him outside of work?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I hadn't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever formed any opinion as to Taylor 's truthfulness or his reliability?

            Mr. SMITH. I think he is truthful, and I think he is reliable.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You don't think he would tell the FBI agent that he got a rifle from this fellow if he didn't in fact get a rifle from this fellow?

            Mr. SMITH. I don't. I sure don't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know where 2515 West Fifth Street is in Irving , Tex. ?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever been there?

            Mr. SMITH. I have taken a lady home that lived there, to bring a car back to service it.

            Mr. LIEBELER.  Can you remember approximately when that was?

            Mr. SMITH. Oh, we serviced her car quite often. What I mean, washed it and greased it, and she comes in occasionally now, but not like she used to.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Have you gone to her house more than once to bring the car back to the station?

            Mr. SMITH. To the best of my knowledge, I believe three times.

            Mr. LIEBELER.  Were all of these times prior to the assassination?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember approximately when the first time was that you took this lady home to her house and brought the car back to the station?

            Mr. SMITH. Well----

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember now that you first started to work for the station in the last of April 1963? Can you remember approximately how long after that it was when you first went to this address on Fifth Street ?

            Mr. SMITH. I sure don't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You have no idea?

            Mr. SMITH. No.

            Mr. LIEBELER. A month, or 2 months, or just don't remember?

            Mr. SMITH. Possibly 2 or 3 months, something like that.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Ever have any conversation with this lady during the time that you drove with her back to her house? 

            Mr. SMITH. Nothing more than just passing the time of day. The only thing, she made the statement one time, the first time I took her home, that she got a little child and she said the baby, he could speak Russian better than he could English. That is the first time I knew there was any Russian blood there.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did she tell you they were Russian, or just told you the little child could speak Russian?

            Mr. SMITH. That is all she told me.

            Mr. LIEBELER. That the child could speak Russian better than English?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER Did you ever see anyone other than this lady and her children at the house on Fifth Street in Irving ?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you actually go into the house on any occasion?

            Mr. SMITH. I helped her, I carried some groceries in her house one time.   She had a carload of groceries, and I helped her put them in the house.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember how many children were with her at that time?

            Mr. SMITH. Three, I believe.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Three children?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you make any judgment as to approximately how old they were? Did it appear to you that they were all her children, or weren't the ages so that it seemed to you that maybe one was the child of somebody else?

            Mr. SMITH. I had an idea they were all hers. They were approximately, looked like spaced out about a year or year and a half apart, something like that.

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            Mr. LIEBELER.  Do you remember which child this lady said could speak Russian better than she could speak English?

            Mr. SMITH. The baby.

            Mr. LIEBELER. The youngest one?

            Mr. SMITH. The youngest one.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember hearing this young baby speaking Russian?

            Mr. SMITH. I did, but I didn't know what she was talking about. I couldn't understand it, and that is the reason she told me that.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did anybody else speak Russian to the child?

            Mr. SMITH. No.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear the lady speak Russian?

            Mr. SMITH. No, I didn't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did the other two children speak Russian?

            Mr. SMITH. They didn't do no talking.

            Mr. LIEBELER. In either English or Russian; is that right?

            Mr. SMITH. No.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Could you describe this lady for us?

            Mr. SMITH. She is a slender woman, tall, slender woman; has very nice personality, and that is about all that I can say for her. She didn't do much talking either.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did she ever make a statement to you that she was Russian herself?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. She just indicated to you that the little baby spoke Russian  better than English, is that right?

            Mr. SMITH. That's right.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did she tell you how it came to be that baby spoke Russian?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't ask her?

            Mr. SMITH. I didn't ask her.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Were you curious about that?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes; I was. I went back to the station and talked to the boss about it. I told him, "I believe those people are Russian people living down there," and he said why, and I told him about the lady telling me the little fellow spoke Russian better than English. And they were curious about it, but nothing was ever said. We didn't say anything to her, because she just come in and got gas and that was all. She never did talk much or anything.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever learn what this lady's name was?

            Mr. SMITH. No; I did not.

            Mr. LIEBELER. And you don't know what it is today?

            Mr. SMITH. I do not.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Was this child a boy or girl, or could you tell?

            Mr. SMITH. I don't know. I never paid any attention to it. I don't know if it was or not.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether it was a boy or girl?

            Mr. SMITH. Well, I didn't know, because I didn't notice. I didn't pay any attention whether it was a boy or girl.

            Ordinarily, when I take a car home out there, I try to get there and back as fast as I can and I don't pay any attention other than the house number and what time it is supposed to be delivered.

            Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of car did this lady have?

            Mr. SMITH. It is a station wagon. I believe a Plymouth .

            Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately what year?

            Mr. SMITH. About a '53 or '54.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure it is a Plymouth , or could it be some other car?

            Mr. SMITH. No; I am not positive. It is either a Plymouth or a Chevrolet. I am not positive. 

            Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever seen this lady at any time other than when she brought her car to the gas station to have it serviced, or when you took her to her house?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

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            Mr. LIEBELER. Was there ever anyone with this lady other than the children at any time?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever meet this lady's husband?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear anything about him?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear that they were separated from each other?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. When you went into the house this first time to take the groceries in, as I understand it, that was the time when the youngest child was speaking Russian, is that correct?

            Mr. SMITH. That's right.

            Mr. LIEBELER. When you went into the house, you brought the groceries into the kitchen, is that correct?

            Mr. SMITH. No; I set them down in the living room. She told me to put them on the coffee table, and I did.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you at that time see anything that would indicate to you that there was someone else in the house?

            Mr. SMITH. The house was awfully dirty. Boy, I never saw such a mess in my life. Things were on the floor, clothing and papers and everything else.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any idea when you went into the house with her that there might be someone else in the house or was someone there in the  house when you came in?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Could you tell one way or the other?  You didn't see into the bedrooms, did you?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. There could have been someone else in the bedrooms and you wouldn't have seen them?

            Mr. SMITH. There could have been.

            Mr. LIEBELER. The lady didn't speak to anybody or call out when she came into the house to anyone else?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. This lady never indicated to you that this child that spoke Russian was not, in fact, her own child, did she?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You always assumed it was this lady's child?

            Mr. SMITH. That's right.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I want to show you five different pictures that have been marked in a previous procedure as Commission Exhibits 451, 453, 454, 455, and 456. I want you to look at them and tell me if you have seen the individuals depicted in these pictures at any time?

            Mr. SMITH. [Looking] No, sir; I sure don't recognize him.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You don't recognize any of these?

            Mr. SMITH. I don't ever remember seeing him.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another photograph which has been marked previously as Pizzo Exhibit 453-B. It is a picture of several people, but one of the individuals has been indicated by a green mark on the face of the photo and I ask you if you have ever seen that individual, to the best of your knowledge?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I do not recognize him.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another photograph which has been marked previously as Pizzo Exhibit 453-C and ask you if you have ever seen that individual, to the best of your knowledge?

            Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I haven't.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I asked you before, did I not, whether you have ever seen this rifle that Mr. Taylor told you he had purchased?

            Mr. SMITH. I have not seen it.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I don't think I have any more questions, Mr. Smith, If you can think of anything that you know that you think the Commission might be

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interested in, whether I have asked you about it or haven't asked you, I would appreciate it if you would indicate that.

            Mr. SMITH. Well, I don't think I have a thing in the world, because actually I didn't know Oswald or his wife, either one. I don't ever remember seeing them.

            And I do want to tell you this. At the time President Kennedy was assassinated, I thought this woman who lived on Fifth Street, right after it happened, I thought that was his wife simply because of her saying that this child spoke Russian and the police arrested Oswald, and I figured in my own mind that this was his wife, but it turned out differently, and that is the only thing that I learned about.

            Mr. LIEBELER. You learned that it wasn't this lady's husband that was involved, by reading the newspapers, is that correct?

            Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; and as far as if this lady that lived on Fifth Street had a husband, I have never seen a man around there at all, and I have never seen a man with her. Ordinarily, just human nature would cause a man and his wife to be together sometime.

            Mr. LIEBELER. But you have never seen this lady with her husband?

            Mr. SMITH. I have never seen her with a man.

            Mr. LIEBELER. I want to thank you very much, Mr. Smith, for coming in. I appreciate it.

            Mr. SMITH. I wish there was something I could do, but I don't know a thing in the world I could help you with, I believe.

            Mr. LIEBELER. Thank you. I appreciate it very much.  

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