The President's Commission reconvened at 2 p.m.

            (Chairman Warren presiding and Mr. Dulles present.)


            The CHAIRMAN. All right, gentlemen.

            Do you have a statement?

            Mr. RANKIN. Sergeant Dean asked if he couldn't appear before the Commission and testify. We took his deposition in Dallas, and he asked, when he signed his




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deposition, whether he couldn't appear personally, so we are permitting him to do this.

            The CHAIRMAN. We are very happy to have you, Sergeant.  Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please?

            You solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

            Mr. DEAN. I do.

            The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please.

            Mr. Rankin, you may examine the witness.

            Mr. RANKIN. Sergeant, will you give us your name, your address, please?

            Mr. DEAN. Patrick T. Dean.  I live at 2822 Nicholson Drive in Dallas.

            Mr. RANKIN. Are you connected with the police department in Dallas?

            Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.

            Mr. RANKIN. What is your position?

            Mr. DEAN. I am a sergeant on patrol.

            Mr. RANKIN. How long have you been an official in the police department?

            Mr. DEAN. Eleven and a half years.

            Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us briefly any training or experience you have had?

            Mr. DEAN. Well, I worked as a patrolman for 5 years. Then I was promoted to sergeant and remained in the patrol division.  I have since been in the patrol division the rest of the time.

            Mr. RANKIN. You have given us your deposition, have you not, Sergeant?

            Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.

            Mr. RANKIN. And is that correct and true as far as anything you know?

            Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.

            Mr. RANKIN. Is there any part of it that you want to change or correct or modify?

            Mr. DEAN. No, sir; I feel the main reason I wanted to appear before the Commission was about the 20 or 25 minutes that was off the record that I feel I would like the Commission to have on the record, and this is between Mr. Griffin and I. He was the original one who started my deposition.

            Mr. RANKIN. Well, do you want to tell that at this time?

            First, is there anything about what you said on the record that was not correct?

            Mr. DEAN. No, sir.

            Mr. RANKIN. And the truth?

            Mr. DEAN. No, sir.

            Well, Mr. Griffin had questioned me about 2 hours, or maybe a little longer. There was no problems at all, no difficulties.  And after that length of time, a little over 2 hours, Mr. Griffin desired to get off the record, and he advised the court reporter that he would be off the record and he could go smoke a cigarette or get a Coke, and he would let him know when he wanted him to get back on the record.

            Well, after the court reporter left, Mr. Griffin started talking to me in a manner of gaining my confidence in that he would help me and that he felt I would probably need some help in the future.

            My not knowing what he was building up to, I asked Mr. Griffin to go ahead and ask me what he was going to ask me.  He continued to advise me that he wanted me to listen to what he had to say before he asked me whatever question he was going to ask me. I finally told him that whatever he wanted to ask me he could just ask me, and if I knew I would tell him the truth or if I didn't know, I would tell him I didn't know.

            Mr. Griffin took my reports, one dated February 18, the subject of it was an interview with Jack Ruby, and one dated November 26, which was my assignment in the basement.

            He said there were things in these statements which were not true and, in fact, he said both these statements, he said there were particular things in there that were not true, and I asked him what portions did he consider not true, and then very dogmatically he said that, "Jack Ruby didn't tell you that he entered the basement via the Main Street ramp."

            And, of course, I was shocked at this.  This is what I testified to, in fact, I was cross-examined on this, and he, Mr. Griffin, further said, "Jack Ruby




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did not tell you that he had thought or planned to kill Oswald two nights prior."

            And he said, "Your testimony was false, and these reports to your chief of police are false."

            So this, of course, all this was off the record.  I told Mr. Griffin then this shocked me, and I told him it shocked me; that I couldn't imagine what he was getting at or why he would accuse me of this, and I asked him, and Mr Griffin replied he didn't or he wasn't at liberty to discuss that particular of it with me, and that he wasn't trying to cross-examine me here, but that under cross- examination he could prove that my testimony was false, and that is when I told Mr. Griffin that these are the facts and I can't change them.  This is what I know about it.

            I quoted Ruby just about verbatim, and since he didn't believe me, and I was saying they were true, we might as well terminate the interview.

            Mr. Griffin then got back on the record, or before he did get back on the record, he said, "Well now, Sergeant Dean, I respect you as a witness, I respect you in  your profession, but I have offered my help and assistance, and I again will offer you my assistance, and that I don't feel you will be subjecting yourself to loss of your job," or some words to that effect, "If you will go ahead and tell me the truth about it."

            I again told Mr. Griffin that these were the facts and I couldn't change them, so with that we got back on the record.

            Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask Mr. Griffin to ever put this part that was off the record on the record?

            Mr. DEAN. No, sir; I didn't.

            Mr. RANKIN. Why didn't you at that time?

            Mr. DEAN. Well, now the discussion was, I said, "Mr. Griffin, I have waived my rights for an attorney, of which. I don't feel like I need one."  I still don't feel like I need one.

            The CHAIRMAN. And you do not need one either Sergeant.

            Mr. DEAN. True.

            The CHAIRMAN. You will get along all right.

            Mr. DEAN. Thank you.  


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