HSCA
Volume I J B Connally
TESTIMONY
OF MR. AND MRS. JOHN B. CONNALLY,
Mr. CONNALLY. Thank you, Mr. Dodd.
Mr. CORNWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor Connally, I would like to begin by
asking you if it would be accurate to state that you had a leading role in the
decisionmaking process that led to the President's trip to
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, Mr. Cornwell, it certainly would be accurate to say
that.
Mr. CORNWELL. When did the possibility of that trip first become a matter
of concern to you?
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, I wouldn't characterize it as a matter of
concern, but the possibility of a trip to Texas arose, as I recall, in the
spring of 1962.
Mr. CORNWELL. What were you doing during that period of time?
Mr. CONNALLY. In 1962, I was running for Governor of
I was not the least bit interested, very frankly, at that point in time,
in trying to put together a trip, sponsoring a dinner, for a number of reasons.
First, I was in the midst of a primary battle. I was running against an
incumbent Governor, an incumbent attorney general, and a number of other
candidates. The first poll that came out after I announced my candidacy
indicated that I had 4 percent of the votes. So, I had an uphill climb in the
battle.
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I fortunately led the primary campaign but went into a runoff with a
young man, then the leader of the liberal element of the Democratic Party in
So frankly, I kept putting off any proposed trip to
The President was making it quite clear to the
Vice President, Mr, Johnson, that he wanted to come to
I
can pause there, Mr. Cornwell.
Mr. CORNWELL. That answers the question. Let me ask you, if you were just
beginning to run in the primaries, why was it that the President's desire to
have a trip to
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, I think first, I had known President Kennedy since
the early 1950's. I had been vice chairman of the
I had, as you know, as Mr. Blakey just recounted, I had been appointed by
President Kennedy as Secretary of the Navy and had served in the year 1961 as
Secretary of the Navy. I, as a matter of fact, not only talked to Mr. McNamara,
but I had gone and talked to President Kennedy before I went home to run for
Governor.
So I was certainly, at that point, probably the Texan, outside of Vice
President Johnson, who was closest to the Kennedy administration, and I think it
was normal and natural that they would expect me to become involved in it.
Mr. CORNWELL. Why, at that point in time, did you understand the
President wanted to come to
Mr. CONNALLY. There was never any doubt in my mind about it. There was
never any doubt in the President's mind or Vice President's mind. He wanted to
come to
As a matter of fact, in 1963, after the--let me digress a moment. After
the campaign was over in November 1962, and I had been successfully elected
Governor, then I had only 60 days between November and January in order to build
a staff and to develop a budget, to develop a legislative program to submit to
the legislature on approximately January 20. This was my first legislative
session of 120 days and, again, I resisted any proposed Presidential
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trips
to
It was obvious, though, that as soon as that was over, we were going to
have to have a trip. I was perfectly willing, at this time, to undertake to
organize one, but all during this period of time, it was quite clear that the
President wanted to come for the purposes for which I have stated; namely, to
raise money; second, to enhance his political fortunes in Texas.
I must say that at that point in time, I don't remember the figures
exactly, but the President was not extremely popular in
The President had brought great elan, he had brought great culture, he
brought great dignity and excitement to the White House, but in spite of that,
his legislative program had not faired all that well. He was not that popular in
the country and his popularity had diminished considerably, as a matter of fact.
He was already looking at 1964 and the campaign of 1964. He had been
traveling all ,over the country. He made it quite clear that in 1964, if he
didn't carry but two States, he wanted to carry
In 1962, I was involved in the campaigning; the first 120 days of 1963, I
was involved in legislative session and if he was coming, I wanted him to come
to achieve the objectives that he wanted; namely, to raise the money; second, to
structure the trip in such a way that he would benefit from it politically.
Mr. CORNWELL. During this approximate 1-year period, from the early part
of 1961 through the period of the first part of 1962 when, as you described, you
were engaged primarily with trying to put together a staff, being a new
Governor, and getting your legislative program through the legislature, the
hints continued to come that the President wanted to come to Texas, you
continued to stall, why didn't the President just come on his own?
Mr. CONNALLY. He could have, but he obviously didn't want to. I had been
elected in a rather, I guess I would have to describe it as a surprising
election. I had frankly been elected by the people that President Kennedy needed
the most, by the moderates and the conservatives of the State. He obviously had
the most liberal wing of the party already for him. They had supported him. In
1960, in the campaign, they were still for him. What he was looking for and what
he was really chafed about was the fact
that
the moderate and conservative elements of the country, not just Texas, but the
whole country, were not supporting him, that he was characterized as being
antibusiness, and part of that, I think, was the result of his actions with
respect to steel prices.
But, nevertheless, I think this irritated him and he said so, and he
didn't
understand it, and he, on one occasion, said to me, that,
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"If
these business people are silly enough to think that I am going to dismantle
this free enterprise system, they are crazy."
So, I think it was obvious that he wanted to come on a basis that he
could talk to, and hopefully appeal to, the very people that had not supported
him, because he was looking at a tough election, at least in our part of the
country, in 1964.
Mr. CORNWELL. Well, if, then, he basically needed someone to help with
the planning arrangements, to achieve the ends that he sought, which was
fundraising and improving his political posture in the State, why didn't he just
ask the Vice President, who was also from Texas, to arrange those matters for
him?
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, for the simple reason that I had been able to build a
pretty successful organization in Texas and the Governor is the titular head of
the party of his State, and, frankly, the Governor of any State, regardless of
his party, Republican or Democrat, is the titular head of the party and he sets
the political tone of the State, and it would be inconceivable and President
Kennedy was too good a politician to try to come to Texas without my
wholehearted support, or at least tacit approval, and the Vice President
certainly would not have done it.
For one of these trips, it is not just as simple as saying, let's go to
It was obvious that the President never seriously considered that. He
obviously could have come any time he wanted to and so could the Vice President,
and the Vice President was down during this period of time--1962-63--on a number
of occasions. But they didn't want to attempt to arrange the type of affair that
they were interested in without my personal involvement and without the
involvement of the State party machinery that I had constructed.
Mr. CORNWELL. Did there come a time when you finally couldn't avoid or
push back the hints any longer?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes. The President was making a trip out through the West,
in the summer, I believe, of 1963. He was going to
Mr. CORNWELL. What kind of room was it?
Mr. CONNALLY. A hotel room. I have forgotten. I believe the Casa Del
Norte Hotel. The Vice President was there, President Kennedy was there, and
several of the staff people. Kenny O'Donnell, as I recall, was there, and the
President made some remark about, "Well, Lyndon, are we ever going to get
this trip to
Vice President Johnson said, "Well, the Governor is here, Mr.
President, let's find out."
Mr. CORNWELL. At this point--
Mr. CONNALLY. I knew at that point my string had run out. I knew we were
going to have a trip to
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fairly
good order and we had the time, I had been able to rebuild the structure of the
Democratic Party, and we were prepared to organize the trip.
So,
I said, in effect, "Mr. President, when do you want to come?" Then he
said, he said, "Well, I think we ought to have four dinners," and I
was in a state of shock. He said, "I think we ought to have four or five
fundraising dinners," and he said, "What do you think about having it
on Lyndon's birthday, August 27?" This was in June, as I recall.
And again I said, "Mr. President, I would like to think about that.
Obviously the Vice President s birthday is always a time for celebration, but
August is the worst month of the year to have a fundraising affair in
Well, we didn't decide at that particular
meeting in
Mr. CORNWELL. Would I understand your earlier description of the climate
in the State of
Mr. CONNALLY. No, they had not. I think the President was concerned about
the campaign of 1964, his popularity. Your chief counsel, Mr. Blakey, just said
it dropped from 83 percent down to about 60 percent, and was on a descending
scale during this period of time, and I don't remember the precise figures the
poll showed, but obviously he had lost considerable ground and he was concerned
about it.
Mr. CORNWELL. Well, given that climate in the State of Texas and in the
Nation, what, if anything, did you expect that you could personally gain or
could be gained for your wing of the Democratic Party from the Texas trip?
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, I thought, first, that
that
point, we were Democrats, we were officeholders, the fortunes of one obviously
affected the fortunes of all, and it was important to all of us that he be
understood, that he be accepted, that he be supported, as much as we possibly
could, and to that extent I would certainly benefit as an officeholder more than
that.
President Kennedy's strongest supporters were not my strongest
supporters. I had developed a base of support among the moderates
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and
conservatives in the State in the Democratic Party, whereas the people that had
been most enthusiastic about President Kennedy really had supported my opponent,
at least in the primary and in the runoff election. Most of them supported me in
the general election in 1962.
So, if the President came, and the mere fact that he did come, and my
association with him, and the fact that I had helped plan the trip, that I would
be with him, Mrs. Connally and I would be with them, obviously was going to
inure to my benefit, it seems to me, among the people who most supported
President Kennedy. So there was never any question really about--my thinking was
not influenced by whether or not I was going to benefit or not going to benefit.
My whole reluctance and resistance up until the summer of 1962 revolved
around my fear that we couldn't put on the type of trip that I thought the
President deserved and that we wanted him to have.
Mr. CORNWELL. You told us that at the meeting in El Paso, in the hotel
suite of the President, in June 1963, you agreed to help him plan the trip, but
that no specific agreement was reached as to
the
details of the trip or as to the date of the trip?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. CORNWELL. What happened next?
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, again Vice President Johnson, with whom I talked
frequently during that period of time, told me the President was still
interested in having four or five fundraising dinners, and I said to the Vice
President, I said, "Well, that is a mistake," and he said, "Well,
that is what he wants and you had better be prepared to do it or better be
prepared to give him a real good reason why you can't do it," and I said,
"All right, I will work out something and be back in touch with you."
I came to
At that point, I just said to him, "Mr. President, I think that is a
mistake; we want the money, yes, but we also need, it seems to me, on your first
real visit to Texas, we need to posture you in such a way that you are going to
politically benefit from it and it doesn't look like all you are interested in
is the money that you are going to get out of the State, and frankly, if you
come down and we try to put on five fundraising affairs in the principal cities
of Texas, most people down there are going to think that all you are interested
in is the financial rape of the State," and I used those words, and he
said, "well, all right what do you suggest?" and at that point I said,
"I would suggest, we have been giving a lot of thought to it, I talked to
the State chairman, I talked to the members of the State legislature, talked to
the other political leaders in the State," and I told him that I thought we
ought to have a number of nonpolitical events for him to go to, that we ought to
try to hit the major cities of Texas--Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, and San
Antonio--and that we ought to culminate it with a dinner in Austin.
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We didn't go over all the details at this particular visit but that was
the general outline of what I had proposed to him. He said all right, you work
it out and get in touch with, as I recall, he said Kenny O'Donnell, and he will
work this out, and we will pick a date, and obviously we were saying to him that
he would have to pick the date of the visit.
He and I were in the Oval Office and he couldn't have been nicer,
couldn't have been more friendly, he got up from behind his desk and came around
and was extremely warm and cordial, as he always was. He sat in the rocking
chair and I sat in one of those little couches there in the Oval Room and I
frankly was a bit surprised that the Vice President wasn't there. But he wasn't.
And later I heard about it, because after my visit with the President, I went
out that evening to "the Elms," to the Vice President's home and he
was considerably irritated with me, and he said so, and he said, "I suppose
you think I don't have any interest in what is happening in Texas," and I
said, "No, Mr. Vice President, I know you are extremely interested in what
is happening in Texas.'
He said, "Why didn't you tell me?" I said, "Mr. Vice
President, I assumed you knew I was going to see the President,' and I said,
trying to alibi any way I could, because I recognized that he was really
irritated about it,' and I said, After all, I made this appointment several days
ago and it is not my prerogative to say who is in that Oval Office, I assumed if
the President wanted you there you would be there."
"Well," he said, "you could have told me beforehand what
you had in mind."
I said, "You have known basically what I had in mind. In any event,
here is what we said," and I recounted to him that I proposed that we visit
the five major cities, Dallas, Houston, Fort Worth, San Antonio, culminating in
a dinner in Austin, and then I apologized to the Vice President and said,
"I am sorry, I should have talked to you before I went in to see the
President. Frankly, I assumed you would be there. When I got into the Oval
Office and I was rather surprised that you weren't, but having the appointment I
had no choice but to go ahead and discuss it," and then I said, "But
here is what we said." I recounted the conversation as best I could and we
proceeded from there.
Mr. CORNWELL. Were there any specific discussions with the President on
this occasion early in October 1963, as to the groups or persons that he should
meet with on his trip?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, we talked about that, as a matter of fact, as early as
El Paso, and I told him I thought we ought to try to schedule the itinerary and
plan the trip in such a way that he would be, particularly the nonpolitical
events, where he could appear before groups, civic groups, basically
nonpolitical groups, but groups composed of the moderate to conservative
business leaders, political leaders of the State, who had not supported him, who
were not enthusiastic about him, in order to try to give him a chance to convert
those people, and he agreed with that. No question about that.
This trip progressed as they always do. This became quite an issue,
simply because Senator Yarborough, Ralph Yarborough, was then in the Senate, he
was being constantly harangued by his
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supporters
in Texas, they were saying, "well, they are structuring this thing trying
to keep us away from the President and the President's supporters are not
getting to see him," and Senator Yarborough was relaying those to the White
House and to the advance people, and we were arguing about tickets and arguing
about everything in the world.
It got to be a major hassle and part of this raised the question that has
since been discussed in great length, that the President came to
The trouble arose basically over Federal patronage and Federal appointees
and Vice President Johnson was trying to get every Federal appointment he could
get, and so was Senator Yarborough. Senator Yarborough was complaining
constantly to the White House to President Kennedy, that Johnson was usurping
his patronage rights of the Senate with respect to Federal judges, marshals, and
so forth. This was the battle here.
And indeed if the President was interested in resolving that difficulty
he had Vice President Johnson right across the street in the old
In the first place, he couldn't have settled the differences in the
Democratic Party. They haven't been settled yet, and they are not going to be
settled. As long as it is basically a one-party State you are going to have the
division there that you have, and you are going to have the liberals and the
conservatives. They have been fighting all my adult life, from the time I first
went to a convention in
So the idea that he was going to go down and settle all of this is pure
hogwash. He didn't intend to do it, he didn't want to do it, he was politician
enough to know he couldn't do it, and he wasn't even going to try. That wasn't
the point at all. But, nevertheless, that created difficulties, but these things
shouldn't be taken out of context.
Any Presidential trip anywhere in the world arouses jealousies,
differences. Every politician--and regardless of his title or position-wants to
be close to the President; he wants to ride in the car; he wants to have a
private meeting; he wants his group to be seen; he wants them to be heard. This
is a constant hassle. I don't care where a President goes. So it is not unique
to Texas, but we had our share of it, I will say that, and this plagued the
Kennedy advance people and it plagued us, and I organized about an eight or
nine-man group, some who worked for me in my own Governor's office, others who
were in the legislature, others in the State party, to put on this affair, and
the President's trip.
As I say, it is not easy. The plans were constantly shifting and
changing. We were trying to really get a mix of things, so that
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people
wouldn't feel left out. We had originally planned a l-day trip and it was
obvious that we were trying to cram too much into 1 day, because again I wanted
to hit the four principal cities plus winding up in
Mr. CORNWELL. If I might, let me show you an exhibit or two before we get
to that explanation.
Mr. Chairman, may we admit into evidence at this time an exhibit which
has been marked for identification as JFK exhibit F-17, which is a newspaper
article from the Dallas Morning News dated September 26, 1963.
Mr. DODD. Without objection, so ordered. [JFK exhibit F-17 and facsimile
follow:]
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EXHIBIT
F-17
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-17 cont.
FACSIMILE
THE
(Front
Page)
KENNEDY
TO VISIT
By
Robert E. Baskin
News
Staff Writer
JACKSON
HOLE, Wyo. - White House sources told The Dallas News exclusively Wednesday
night that President Kennedy will visit Texas Nov. 21 and 22.
The visit will embrace major cities of the state, including
Kennedy
is currently on a tour of the
The final White House decision to make the trip to
Although specific details have not been worked out, it was considered
likely that the President will visit
There has been speculation for some time that the President was
contemplating a visit to
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-17 cont.
known
that numerous
The presidential decision may have been prompted by what he has seen on
his current tour: a strong
trend toward conservation and Republicanism in the Western states.
He is believed to feel that he must cope with this situation in
preparation for the 1964 campaign.
Earlier Wednesday at
In a straight-forward, rather far-reaching address to some 15,000
persons, Kennedy gave a resounding vote of confidence to Montana's veteran Mike
Mansfield, Senate Democratic leader, and won cheers when he explained why he
sought the nuclear test ban pact.
And he was obviously in high spirits as a result of the House's approval
of the tax cut bill, news of which reached him just before he began his talk.
For the first time since he left
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-17 cont.
the
announced reason for his il-state tour.
Foreign affairs got him his best hand.
Kennedy said Mansfield, up for re-election in 1964, was responsible for
ratification of the test ban treaty Tuesday.
He added that Senate GOP leader Everett M. Dirksen,
He recalled his confrontations with Soviet Premier Nikita S. Khrushchev
in 1961 and 1962 and how war has been avoided.
"What we hope to do," the President said, "is to lessen
the chance of a military collision between these two great powers which together
have the power to kill 300 million people in a day.
That is why I support the test ban treaty."
From
Earlier in the day at
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Mr. CORNWELL. You have described for us, Governor, the meeting you had
with the President on October 4. Several days prior to that, the newspaper
article, the front page of which is shown in the exhibit, appeared in the
White House sources told the
Were you aware of either that article or similar publicity prior to your
trip to see the President on October 47
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, I don't have any specific memory of it but I am sure
I knew it.
Mr. CORNWELL. Do you know, apart from what the implication is in the
article, who released that report?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, but it made no impact on me. I don't have any memory of
this particular article at all, but it would not be surprising because we had
made it clear to the President that he was going to have to pick the date for
the trip, and I just assumed that is the date that probably they had chosen. We
were constantly in touch back and forth during this period of time in the fall
with the Vice President and with Kenny O'Donnell and others trying to plan the
type of trip and without getting down to specific details, and we hadn't yet had
the date, but I am sure I knew about this, yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. You have told us that after the October 4 trip, you went
back to
Mr. CONNALLY. Oh, gosh, a great many people. Everyone in my office was.
My Executive Assistant, Howard Rose, certainly was. Eugene Lock, who I believe,
from Dallas, still was Chairman of the State Democratic Party was. Pat O'Keefe,
who was Executive Director of the State party was involved. Carol Abbott, who
worked at the State party, was certainly involved. Bill Stenson, who was on my
Governor's staff, was certainly involved. Representative Ben Barnes was
involved; Frank Irwin was involved; Julian Reed was involved. There were 8 or 10
of us who spent a great deal of time on it.
Mr. CORNWELL. Let me ask Mrs. Connally, were you involved in that
process, too?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, I certainly was.
Mr. CORNWELL. What was your role?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I was shining that mansion up like you never saw.
[Laughter.]
We were trying to get everything ready at the Governor's mansion for our
first visit from a President and his Lady, so I had all the hassles of any
housewife trying to get her house in order so it would be just right for the
very special guests.
Mr. CONNALLY. I think, to put it in a little different context, I think
the first thing we agreed on, and Nellie certainly was involved in intimate
detail with the trip, because the one thing we
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had
agreed on we were going to try to wind up with the fundraising affair in
Because of the nature of the State, unless you do have four or five
fundraising affairs you cannot choose another city in Texas and have as
successful a fund-raising dinner as you can if you have it in Austin.
This was the news center of the State, just like
We planned--the one thing we had done, which we had agreed on early, was
to have the dinner in Austin--a $100-a-plate affair, because we had to start
selling tickets. Then, Nellie and I agreed that probably the best place for a
reception was to ask President and Mrs. Kennedy to come to the mansion, and to
invite the entire legislature, 150 members of the house, 31 members of the
senate, to come to the mansion to meet the President, and at that time we
weren't sure Mrs. Kennedy was coming. In my visit with him I had expressed the
hope that she would come, and he said well, I am not sure, but I will talk to
her about it and I will ask her to come with me. And as I recall, he said, at
the time I saw him, I believe he said she was in
I told him I thought that in all of these events there were going to be
men and women; I thought it would contribute enormously if she came. The women
wanted to see her; they read a great deal about her; they want to see her; they
want to see what her hairdo looks like and what her clothes look like, and it is
important to them. So he said, I agree with you, and I will talk to her about it
when she gets back.
So in any event, we thought if we could have the President and Mrs.
Kennedy at the mansion to meet all of the members of the State party machinery,
the representatives and the senators, it would probably be as effective a thing
as we could do to help him on his trip. Then from there we would go directly to
the dinner at the Coliseum, where we planned to have 3,000 people at $100 a
plate.
Mr. CORNWELL. What were the other basic elements in your initial proposal
to the President as to how the trip should be organized?
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, basically, we had to get a nonpolitical sponsorship
and a nonpolitical activity in the four other major cities to give him a forum,
to attract the type of audience, to give him some identity.
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As I recall early on, we, in Fort Worth, we considered the idea of having
Texas Christian University in Fort Worth confer an honorary degree on him and
let him speak on the campus of Texas Christian University. That was thought of
early.
In
Well, just before the trip, as I recall, we didn't have but about 48
hours notice, not more than 72, he decided he would go to
He had been chairman of the Appropriations Committee since 1940. He was
extremely well regarded in
No President, in his right mind, completely disregards the chairman of
the Appropriations Committee. Since he was ill and since they were good friends,
the President, I think, graciously said, "I'd like to come." So, this
changed our whole format. Then, we were able to get him for a day and a half.
So, we moved the
In the meantime, in trying to work out the itinerary and talking about an
honorary degree from Texas Christian University, frankly, some of the trustees
of Texas Christian University took a dim view of it and weren't enthusiastic
about it, and we dropped the idea completely because the last thing we wanted to
do was to get into any kind of dispute or hassle because we wanted his trip to
be smooth; we wanted everything acceptable.
I personally went to
We had done that in each of the places. The White House came up with the
idea, or somebody did, that they would dedicate the
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But in working it all out, we had a motorcade in
We had a motorcade right through the center of
We left
Mr. CORNWELL. Your basic plan of meeting with various citizens groups and
the representatives of the businesss community, did that meet any stiff
resistance and, if so, from what area?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I don't think it met any stiff resistance. I think the
complaints came, as I said a moment ago, largely voiced by Senator Yarborough
and some of the labor groups and some of the liberal groups on the grounds that
not enough of their people were being included.
Now, the leadership among the labor, among the blacks, everybody else,
they were being included in these affairs, even though they were not formally
members of these organizations; they were being invited; they were being given
tickets, but they were not being invited in mass numbers to the various affairs;
they were there at the breakfast; they were there at the Albert Thomas dinner;
they were there at the luncheon at the Trade Mart in Dallas; they certainly were
there at the affair, or to be there at the affair in Austin that night, the
$100-a-plate dinner.
As a matter of fact, we sent all of them tickets. We said, "Please
help us."
Mr. CORNWELL. Who did the conversations occur with where there were
disagreements as to, at least, the emphasis that should be placed on various
aspects?
Mr. CONNALLY. Very few of them with me. I was meeting intermittently with
these eight or nine people that I had working on this trip, but-
Mr. CORNWELL. Who were your people meeting with?
Mr. CONNALLY. They were meeting with Hal [sic] (1) Bruno the President's
advance man. We were getting information from all kinds of sources. We were
getting direct calls from the top labor leaders in the State, and others. You
know, we were getting a considerable feedback and frankly, considerable
differences developed between the President's advance men and the people I had
working on the trip and to the point where it got a bit testy.
Mr. CORNWELL. What were the main areas of disagreement?
Mr. CONNALLY. Just minutia details. Inevitably, these things happen about
who is going to sit at the table, who's going to do this, who is going to do
that. One of the biggest controversies arose
-----------------------------
**The
Governor later corrected his reference to Mr. Bruno, explaining that it was
Jerry Bruno.
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over
whether or not we were going to have a motorcade in
Finally, frankly, it got so bad with Hal Bruno and the President's
advance people, that real differences developed between the people I had working
on the trip and the President's advance people where Hal Bruno, I think, was
pulled off, completely off of the trip and Bill Moyers came down as kind of a
peacemaker.
Mr. CORNWELL. What was your view in opposing the motorcade in
Mr. CONNALLY. Basically, my reason for opposing the motorcade in
Even if he just catches a human's eye for one fleeting second, there is a
communication, and this is why in the car, Nelly and I had very little
conversation with the President and Mrs. Kennedy. The conversations were
extremely brief and desolatory because he was, in effect, working the crowd from
the car and to a lesser extent, so was I.
You have to be in one. You have to experience it to understand precisely
what I am saying. But I am telling you, it's a strain on him. We had him getting
up early in the morning to attend a breakfast in
What I wanted him to do--you know--you can work anybody to death. Ask any
of these members of this committee. They will tell you when they go into a town
or a county, the local campaign chairman--or into a precinct or a ward--he wants
to work him from 7 in the morning to midnight. He doesn't care what happens
tomorrow because he is going to be gone.
This local politician, he will go to sleep, he will sleep all the next
day. But, unfortunately, the officeholder has to get up and go again on another
15-hour day.
And I was extremely conscious of that because I started in State politics
in 1938. I managed President Johnson's campaign in 1941 and 1948 when he ran for
'the Senate, and I had been through enough of this. I had caught enough hell
about over scheduling, so I didn't want to do the President that way and I
wanted him to be sharp.
No human being can be up for 15 hours a day and all we were trying to do
was allow him enough time in between events to where when he really got in front
of an audience, when the cameras were on him, when the newsmen were watching
him, that he
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29
could
look good, he would look fresh, his voice would be strong, he could really be
able to exude warmth and enthusiasm. And, this is the whole reason; now---
There was one other reason, and that was simply that I thought, no more
so really in
Then, as you recounted a moment ago, Ambassador Stevenson, Adlai
Stevenson, came to
And, I said, "Yes, I imagine he's a nice fellow." But that was
about the only thing we saw, and frankly, there was less of that than I thought.
The crowds were larger than I anticipated. They were more enthusiastic than I
could even have hoped for. All the way through, in
So, the trip had been absolutely wonderful, and we were heaving a sigh of
relief because once we got through the motorcade at Dallas and through the
Dallas luncheon, then everything else was pretty much routine.
Mr. CORNWELL. Let me ask you to go through the details of that trip
perhaps more precisely. After the elaborate planning and the arguments over the
details, I suppose there must have been some relief when the day finally came.
Mr. CONNALLY. Oh, yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. Let me ask, Mrs. Connally, you had an opportunity to meet
the President and his wife at the airport; is that correct?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. Where did you come from just immediately prior to that?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I came from
Mr. CORNWELL. What had you been doing in the immediate hours or day
or two right before the arrival?
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30
Mrs. CONNALLY. Well, the entrance hall in the Governor's mansion had sort
of gold carpet, and since this house is open to the public, it gets a lot of
traffic. So, I had had the carpet cleaned, but 2 days before the visit, I
decided they didn't clean it well enough and I was having it cleaned again. So,
I was having a talk with the carpet cleaners and I left the house in
Mr. CORNWELL. The Governor, as I understand, was in
Mrs. CONNALLY. From different directions.
Mr. CORNWELL. Would you describe for us what your feelings were as the
event took place and the President arrived into
Mrs. CONNALLY. Me?
Mr. CORNWELL. Yes, ma'am.
Mrs. CONNALLY. It was very exciting. It was the first time that we had
been host to a President and his lady. Everybody was excited. We were excited
and nervous--I tell you, I felt exactly like the mother of everybody. I wanted
all the Texans to be so wonderful to them when they came and I wanted them to
react in a good way, too. I just was nervous and excited and could hardly wait.
Mr. CORNWELL. Were the reactions from the people in
Mrs. CONNALLY. There was a tremendous roar when the plane put down and
the door opened and out stepped Mrs. Kennedy, who looked beautiful, just like
everybody expected, and then the handsome young President coming out behind her.
I get goose pimples now thinking about it. It really was an exciting moment in
our life.
Mr. CORNWELL. You went from the airport in a motorcade to
downtown
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. Was the reception there as great?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes. Tell them about the reception. Everybody was excited.
It just made you feel good.
Mr. CONNALLY. You couldn't have asked for more. The crowds were large,
they were extremely warm, extremely enthusiastic. Just could not have been
better.
Mr. CORNWELL. Did the activities in
Mrs. CONNALLY. Nothing that I know.
Mr. CONNALLY. NO, it all went extremely well. We left San Antonio and
went to Houston--got into Houston right at the-there were several thousand
people at the airport to meet us. We went downtown right at the rush-hour
traffic. Of course, cars were bumper to bumper almost four lanes wide, and they
all stopped for just miles. As they were leaving town, we were going into town.
As this motorcade passed, people were out, they were stopped, they
were
standing up, cardoors open, they were waving--Mrs. CONNALLY. Cheering.
Mr. CONNALLY. Cheering. We got to the hotel. The President met that
evening with a group of Mexican-American leaders, the
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31
LULAC
organization was having a big dance in the Rice Hotel where they were staying,
and he and Mrs. Kennedy, Vice President and Mrs. Johnson went by there before
they went to the Thomas dinner. The Thomas dinner was a complete sellout in the
Coliseum. I guess they had 3,500 people there, and I watched because I knew
these people and I knew the crowds. Frankly, I don't remember what the President
said. I must confess, I didn't listen to him because I was concentrating almost
totally on the crowd reaction.
I was looking and watching all through the crowd during his entire
speech. He was indeed reaching these people; he was communicating with them. It
just could not have been a better day in both
Mr. CORNWELL. After the Albert Thomas dinner and the meeting with the
Mexican-American leaders had concluded, you flew, again,
in
Air Force One, this time to
Mr. CONNALLY. That's correct.
Mr. CORNWELL. Up until this point of the trip, had you had any
opportunity, really, to speak to the President and to learn what his reaction
was to the reception he had received in
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, don't you remember how excited he was about how
everyone--they talked in the airplane, from
Mr. CONNALLY. Unlike, I suppose, the often-repeated verbosity of some of
us from
So, his praise would be couched in a different language then from my own.
It is obvious that he was extremely pleased. I think Nelly can probably explain
this better than I, but I think one of the significant things that occurred was
the change that we saw in Mrs. Kennedy and her reaction to the trip.
In
Particularly, in
Mrs. CONNALLY. The back seat was raised, so she would get more wind
there.
Mr. CONNALLY. The President knew that really wasn't the right way to do
it and he made her get back in the back seat, and I got back on the jump seat.
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32
Mrs. CONNALLY. Where you belong.
Mr. CONNALLY. Where I belong. The next day, it was obvious that after the
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, happily responding to the crowds.
Mr. CONNALLY. Marked difference in her reactions and her appearance
between the afternoon of the 21st and the day of the 22d. Noticeably in
Mrs. CONNALLY. And they were enjoying seeing her as much as they were the
President. They were calling out their names and I think she really got in the
spirit of it.
Mr. CORNWELL. You told us about the dispute which was long standing
between Senator Yarborough and first Senator Johnson and then continuing into
Vice President Johnson. Did that particular dispute come up at all? You said
that it wasn't the reason the President came to
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, oh, it was ever with us. It came up, I didn't know it.
Everything had gone beautifully. We had gotten into Fort Worth about 11 o'clock
at night at Carswell Air Force Base and drove into town in a light drizzle, and
the President and Mrs. Kennedy and Vice President and Mrs. Johnson went up to
their suites. When they were safely ensconced, I was so relieved that everything
had gone well that I went down to the Texas Hotel coffeeshop to have some bacon
and eggs and a glass of milk about
midnight.
That was the first then that I heard they had had quite a hassle in
I didn't worry much about it, but nevertheless, it had happened and it
was by that time the talk of the motorcade, the talk of the press and so I
didn't think any more about it until the next morning.
And, the President, when he came back from his speech, the first thing he
did when he got up--Mrs. Kennedy was not with him-Jim Wright, Congressman Jim
Wright, who is now the majority leader of this Congress of the House, took him
across the street from the Texas Hotel into this parking lot where he spoke to
the crowds there, and then he came back into the Long Horn Room of the Texas
Hotel and sat down and he motioned for me to come over.
I went over there and he said, "John, did you know Yarborough
refused to ride with Lyndon yesterday?"
I
said, "Yes, sir; I heard that last night."
And
he said, "By God, he'll ride with him today or he'll walk." So, I said
OK. I did nothing about it. But then later, I saw him talking to Senator
Yarborough, and indeed, that day Senator Yarborough rode in the car with Vice
President Johnson in the
Mr. CORNWELL. So, that was the only part of what we might call the
Yarborough-Johnson feud that was even taken up by the President on his trip; is
that correct?
Mr. CONNALLY. Right.
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33
In deference to my old home town of Fort Worth, Mr. Cornwell,
and also to set the record straight, at least one publication in Fort Worth
talked about a drab, sordid hotel room, the Presidential suite in which the
President stayed. Well, it turned out it so happened that the Texas Hotel was,
at that point, controlled by the Ammon Carter estate and C.D. Richardson estate.
They had gone to great pains to do everything they could, once it was certain he
was coming to Fort 'Worth, was going to stay at the Texas Hotel, to refurbish
this suite and, as a matter of fact, Mrs. J. Lee Johnson III, Miss Ruth Carter
Johnson, Mr. Ammon Carter's daughter had gone to the trouble to go to private
homes around town and had borrowed paintings and Nelly helped me, but there was
a Picasso in the suite, there was a Monet in the suite, a Van Gogh in the suite,
and two or three more, so they probably had a couple million dollars worth of
paintings just on the walls and I assure you they had done everything they
could--the President was obviously impressed, and so was Mrs. Kennedy.
The first thing he did the next day was to call Mrs. Johnson, Mrs. J. Lee
Johnson III, who lived in Fort Worth, and thank her for her kindness and for her
trouble and for her consideration and to tell her how delighted they were with
the accommodations in the hotel, all of which means nothing except to kind of
clear the air and set the record straight because things get told and then they
get repeated, and I think, in all fairness, we ought not to
describe
that suite as a rundown, sordid suite.
Mrs. CONNALLY. It makes me mad.
Mr. CORNWELL. The next morning, the one you have just been describing, of
course, was November 22, 1963. The President had a breakfast and then a meeting
with the chamber of commerce.
Mr. CONNALLY. A what?
Mr. CORNWELL. A breakfast scheduled; is that correct?
Mr. CoNNALLY. Yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. And thereafter, he had a speech in the parking lot; is that
correct?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I believe he spoke in the parking lot first and
then
he came back into the hotel, then, Mrs. Kennedy joined him. She did not go
across the street to the parking lot, but she did join him and then they came
into the breakfast together. I would guess this is now 9:25, 9:30, something
like that.
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-11
Mrs. CONNALLY. He came first and made the statement that Jackie was
pulling herself together and then turned to Vice President Johnson and said,
"Lyndon, nobody pays any attention to what we wear," which I thought
was funny, didn't you?
Mr. CORNWELL. The morning, then, I take it, started off well; is that
correct?
Mr. CONNALLY. Extremely well.
Mr. CORNWELL. The weather was somewhat drizzly, but apart from that, the
schedule went well, the receptions, again, were as you described them on the
previous day. Is that right?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, and there were 2,500 people in the breakfast that
morning. So, the idea that he was meeting with a few exclusive, handpicked
people is hardly true. That breakfast meeting alone, I think, had 2,500 people
there.
Mr. CORNWELL. Thereafter, you all again boarded Air Force One and flew to
Mr. CONNALLY. That's right.
Mr. CORNWELL. You told us previously what types of concerns you had had
about the motorcade in
Mr. CONNALLY. No, not really. There had been an ad, I have forgotten what
it said, in the morning paper that morning about the trip. It was a somewhat
derogatory ad, but I really was not apprehensive about anything except, as I
said, that we might see an embarrassing sign or some rude statement or a few
pickets here or there. But I must say, as Air Force One landed at the airport in
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35
Dallas,
the Sun broke through, it was absolutely marvelous weather, could not have been
better.
JFK
EXHIBIT F-12
The crowd at the airport was several thousand people. It was, again, an
extremely receptive group of people who were out there, enthusiastic group of
people. I recall that after President and Mrs. Kennedy shook hands with those in
the receiving line, they went over and Vice President and Mrs. Johnson
accompanied them, and they went over for 5 minutes or so, walked up and down the
fence where there were thousands of people gathered and shaking hands and
greeting people who came to the airport to see them.
Mr. CORNWELL. Tell us then, if you would, in more detail, what happened
as you all entered the limousine and began the motorcade.
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, as these things are normally done, it was timed
fairly well and we immediately got into the cars, the motorcade started.
One thing I do recall, I said a moment ago that Mrs. Kennedy appeared to
be much more relaxed, much more in the spirit of things. She was smiling more,
obviously more at ease, but one little thing, the Sun was bright. It had come
out bright and beautiful. The sky was beautiful, the clouds had dispersed and
she put on her dark glasses. What did he say?
Mrs. CONNALLY. He said, "Take your glasses off, Jackie."
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-13
Mr. CONNALLY. "Take your glasses off, Jackie." She kept them
off for awhile and she just unconsciously put them back on.
Mrs. CONNALLY. You could hear him again saying, "Take your glasses
off, Jackie."
Mr. CONNALLY. This happened a third time. Then, I think she finally left
them off. But on the way down in the motorcade-again, the crowds were
large--were enthusiastic. We stopped two or three times. I remember twice--in
particular, there was a little girl, I guess she was 8 years old, who had a
placard that said, "President Kennedy," something like, "will you
shake hands with me?" and held up this sign. Well, he immediately stopped
the car and shook hands with this little girl, and of course, the car
was
mobbed. The minute the car stopped, here came the Secret Service. They got
between the car, the limousine in which he was riding, and the mass of people
who immediately surrounded the car. We extricated ourselves from this group and
then went on.
The other stop, we were halfway downtown, I suppose, when there was a
nun, a sister, with a bunch of school children, obviously from a parochial
school there, right by the car. And he stopped and spoke to them, and to the
sister and to the children. We stopped a third time, I believe, along the route.
But, uh----
Mr. CORNWELL. What was the route, incidentally? Will you describe that
for us? How did the motorcade go from the airport' to its destination site,
which is the Trade Mart?
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37
November
22, 1963
JFK
EXHIBIT F-9
Mr. CONNALLY. I think we went down
Mr. CORNWELL. So, at least the idea was it was basically a route which
took you down through the heart of downtown
Mr. CONNALLY. Right through the heart of
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JFK
EXHIBIT F-10A and 10B
JFK
EXHIBIT F-15
Page
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39
Mr. CORNWELL. Mrs. Connally, at any point in the motorcade, did you have
a chance to speak to the President?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, we were having such a wonderful reception, and we
were all so excited, and we had had through all these other cities, and I had
restrained myself up to that point from saying anything, but I could no longer
stand it, so I turned around to the President and I said, "Mr. President,
you can't say Dallas doesn't love you."
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where was that in the motorcade? At what point?
Mrs. CONNALLY. That was just as we were right approaching the book
depository.
Mr. CONNALLY. Just before we turned.
Mrs. CONNALLY. Just before we turned.
Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, at this time, I think I might suggest to you
we take a brief break and set up a projector and then show a film of the
motorcade, which has been marked "JFK F-8."
Chairman STOKES. So ordered.
At this time, we will take a brief break to set up the film portion.
[A
brief recess was taken.]
Chairman STOKES. If everyone would take their seats again, the committee
is ready to resume its sitting.
I
also ask that the lights be dimmed at this time.
The Chair recognizes Professor Blakey for a narration and presentation of
the film.
Mr. BLAKEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would note initially that this is
a copyrighted film.
[At this point, a film began to be shown as Mr. Blakey described the
events portrayed in it.]
Mr. BLAKEY. November 22, 1963, 11:40 a.m., central standard time.
President and Mrs. Kennedy arrive at Love Field,
It
is a bright, sunshiny day, though it had been raining earlier. The President and
First Lady greet well-wishers at Love Field.
Then, they join Gov. John B. Connally of
The Kennedys and Connallys get into the open Presidential limousine for
the trip to the city. Plans to have the Presidential party enclosed in the
limousine's bubble-top were abandoned when the rain stopped.
There
is no need for top coats or hats; the temperature is 68°. Destination the
International Trade Mart where the President is to deliver a luncheon address to
an audience of businessmen. This is the last leg of the swing through
Yesterday, the Presidential party visited
Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson is riding in the limousine
behind
the President, along with Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough. The motorcade left
Love Field shortly after 11:50 a.m.
The crowds that line the route get thicker as it reaches the business
district of the city.
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40
Main Street: The motorcade is approaching Dealey Plaza, an area where
open lawns are surrounded by express highways and tall buildings.
At the corner of Main and
The
The book depository isn't shown. It is located to the immediate left of
the picture.
As the limousine approaches the intersection of
At
The film shows police motorcycles leading the limousine as it goes by the
depository. The building in the background is the book depository. The window at
the extreme right at the top of the picture is the one where earlier
investigations have concluded Lee Harvey Oswald is located at this moment. It is
about 12:30 p.m.
As the President waves to the crowds, shots ring out, the President and
Governor Connally are wounded. The President is struck in the head. The
limousine speeds up heading for the Stemmons Freeway. Its destination is now
At
approximately 1 p.m., the President will be pronounced dead.
Chairman STOKES. May we have the lights back, please.
The
Chair recognizes Mr. Cornwell, counsel for the committee.
Mr. CORNWELL. At this point, Mrs. Connally, I would like to ask you some
questions about what your memory is of what happened on
What distance, after turning the corner, do you recall the car going
before you noticed something was wrong?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Not very far. I don't really know how far. Do
you
want me to just tell you everything I remember?
Mr. CORNWELL. That will be fine.
Mrs. CONNALLy. I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the
President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated
in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I
just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the
noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with
both hands.
He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had
turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no,
no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look
back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his
right--the second shot was fired and hit him. He was in the process of turning,
so it hit him through this shoulder, came out right about here. His hand was
either right in front of him or on his knee as he turned to look so that the
bullet went through him, crushed his wrist and lodged in
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41
his
leg. And then he just recoiled and just sort
of slumped in his seat.
I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like
that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing
I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever
was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't
hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.
We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because
they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my
lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he
could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the
floor.
The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning
over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I
never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have
shot my husband."
Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said,
"They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand".
I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say,
"Let's get out of here quick." So, we pulled out of the motorcade and
we must have been a horrible sight flying down that freeway with those dying men
in our arms and going to no telling where. We just see the crowds flashing by.
John said nothing. I said only to him from the time I saw one little
movement, that maybe he is still alive, and, I kept whispering to him, "Be
still, it is going to be all right, be still, it is going to be all right."
I have read stories where I screamed and he screamed and all these
things. There was no screaming in that horrible car. It was just a silent,
terrible drive. We got to the hospital, I guess it was the hospital, the car
stopped and John was still in my lap, but I knew he was alive and people were
swarming all around the car.
They were trying to get Mrs. Kennedy to get out so they could get the
President out and she didn't seem to want to get out of the car. I sat there for
what seemed to me an awfully long time, but probably was just a few minutes,
wondering how long I had to sit there with this man dying in my arms before I
could ask somebody to do something.
At that moment, John just sort of heaved himself up out of my arms and
then just kind of collapsed in front of the door. And at that moment, the door
opened and somebody picked him up and just ran off down the corridor and I ran
along behind them.
We got into what later I found was trauma room 1 and trauma room 2. The
President was on a stretcher right behind us, I guess. I still had never looked
back. John was in the room on the right-well, as we approached, the President
was on the right and John was on the left and I stood there, so alone. I never
have felt so alone in my life, and there was much commotion racing around us.
I saw all sorts of artillery and weapons. I assume it was Secret Service
or security, I don't know, racing up and down around the corridor. Finally,
somebody brought two chairs and sat them outside these two doors, and I sat in
one and Mrs. Kennedy sat in the other. I kept seeing all this commotion in the
President's room, and
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42
I
wondered if--I knew the President was dead, but I wondered if they weren't all
over there and nobody taking care of John. The only thing that would calm me a
little was I would get up now and then and just push open the door in the room
where he was, and if I could see any movement or hear them saying anything, then
I was content to wait.
They sent me out one cuff link. Then they
came out and took him down the corridor to the operating room and I just ran
along behind the stretcher, not knowing what I was running to or what I was
running from, but run I knew I must.
And all during the surgery, which was 3 1/2 hours, I was in some little
waiting room and the doctors were just wonderful.
They kept sending messages out to me to say John would be alright, that
the bullet had missed all the vital organs and where
he
was in bad shape, he would be all right. What else?
Mr. CORNWELL. Thank you, very much.
Governor, let me ask you the same question. What is your memory of the
events? What did you see and hear? What happened after the limousine started
down
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I
suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I
thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in
front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was
sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right
shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of
the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an
assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see
the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least
I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could
see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned
back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving,
I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It
went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my
right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when
I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I
had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly
reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard
two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am
sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I
heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost
like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of
the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and
there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something
that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
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43
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service
agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some
buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get
out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the
driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I
was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just
thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all
been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so
marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just
said, "no, no, no, no".
Then
I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to
kill
us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same
direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me
where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I
was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into
unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat,
that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach
the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise
myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so
that they could get to him in the back seat.
I
knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that
was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position.
Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped
again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a
stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first
pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid
out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as
if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the
back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has
been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only
give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission,
I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet.
I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first
shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of
speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might
well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the
second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second
bullet. We obviously weren't hit by
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the
third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said
Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three
separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the
second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection
is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the
question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in
other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be
accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first
noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is
that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that
accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy
after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know
when he was hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. And you have testified that of the two shots that you have
a memory of hearing, they both, your immediate impression was they came from the
right rear?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. CORNWELL. And I don't believe we heard what Mrs. Connally's
recollection is on that. What was your impression as to the
direction
from which the three shots you heard came?
Mrs. CONNALLY. All from the right rear.
Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions at this time.
Chairman STOKES. At this time, the Chair will recognize the gentleman
from
Mr. DEVINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor and Mrs. Connally, I know this is very difficult for you to have
to relive this situation again and again. I know that you, Governor, testified
before the
[Mrs.
Connally nods affirmatively.]
Mr. DEVINE. We appreciate the fact that we are trying to refresh your
recollection on something that happened nearly 15 years ago, although it appears
to be quite vivid in your mind, and the responsibility of this committee, as you
know, on the mandate from the House is to see whether or not there are any
unturned stones or
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any
evidence that has not been presented to the
Relating specifically to your testimony, Mrs. Connally, you heard one
shot and you turned to your right and witnessed the President grasping his
throat with both hands. Was anything said by anyone at that time?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Nothing.
Mr. DEVINE. Then what is the next sound you heard? You were
still
looking back at the President. Did you hear another sound?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard the second shot; yes.
Mr. DEVINE. The second shot. Were you looking back at that
time
or were you looking forward again?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I don't know.
Mr. DEVINE. You don't recall.
That
second shot is the one that you said hit your husband?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I was horror stricken when I looked back, and I may have
still been just looking.
Mr. DEVINE. But at that time you heard the second shot?
Mrs. CONNALLY. A difficult thing to believe.
Mr. DEVINE. The second shot that you heard is the one that you believe
hit Governor Connally?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it hit Governor Connally.
Mr. DEVINE. And then after you knew that he was hit, and you
pulled
him over in your lap, you then heard the third shot?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DEVINE. And again from over your right shoulder?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DEVINE. Did you look back at that time?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I never looked back after John was hit.
Mr. DEVINE. Have you had any experience at all with fire arms---
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DEVINE [continuing]. Over the years?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DEVINE. Would you say in your judgement that shot you
heard,
or the shots that you hear, were from a rifle or hand gun?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Oh, no, I am not that much of an---
Mr. DEVINE. You don't know?
Mrs. CONNALLY. And, I'm not expert at all.
Mr. DEVINE. All right.
Mrs. CONNALLY [continuing]. In shooting.
Mr. DEVINE. Governor, I think you testified that you heard but two shots
and that you don't think that you heard the shot that struck you; is that
accurate?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. DEVINE. Both of these came from over your right shoulder?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir, from behind me and over my--back behind me over
my right shoulder, that is correct.
Mr. DEVINE. The first shot that you hear which caused you to look to your
right, I think you said you didn't get far enough around to see the President,
is that accurate?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
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Mr. DEVINE. Did you recognize any of the sound as being a rifle shot or
hand gun shot?
Mr. CONNALLY. I thought it was a rifle shot.
Mr. DEVINE. Then you turned around and started to turn back around to
look over your left shoulder to see what?
Mr. CONNALLY. To see if the President was all right, because immediately
the thought flashed through my mind that if this was a rifle shot, which I
believed it to be, that it was probably an assassination attempt and I was
trying to see if anything had happened in the automobile.
Mr. DEVINE. Is that the time that you exclaimed, no, no, or was it later?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, it was a bit later, because I wasn't sure at that point
in time that anything had happened, so it was a bit later when I said oh, no,
no, no. This was after I realized I had been hit and, then I said my God, they
are going to kill us all.
Mr. DEVINE. As you turned from looking over you right shoulder, you are
about facing forward, in the process of turning to look over
your
left shoulder, when you were hit?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEVINE. But you heard no shot?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. DEVINE. That caused you to pitch forward?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEVINE. And you said you saw a great deal of blood?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEVINE. Were you aware at that time that you were hit in the hand and
leg also?
Mr. CONNALLY. NO, sir, I was not.
Mr. DEVINE. When did you first become aware of that, in the emergency
room or elsewhere?
Mr. CONNALLY. NO, I became aware of that when I regained consciousness on
Sunday, I guess. On Sunday morning I woke up and regained consciousness to see
my arm tied up in a sling and leg bandaged and I said what happened to my arm,
and that is when I first learned that the bullet had gone through my chest and
through my wrist and had broken all the bones in my wrist.
Mr. DEVINE. Reflecting back, do you have an opinion that you would have
been able to physically remove your body from your position on the jumpseat to a
different position in the limousine during the time lapse between the first
sound and the impact that hit you?
Mr. CONNALLY. I am sorry, Congressman, do you mind--
Mr. DEVINE. To put it this way, I think either you or Ms. Connally said
that the jumpseats were so close to the back of the front seat that there was no
way that you could have slumped to the floor?
Mr. CONNALLY. Right.
Mr. DEVINE. And that the only position you could have ultimately moved
into was to be over on Mrs. Connally's lap, is that accurate?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think that is a correct statement.
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47
Mr. DEVINE. I believe you testified in response to Mr. Cornwell that you
heard only two shots, they came from behind, there was not any from any other
direction, is that accurate?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. DEVINE. Mrs. Connally, would you also make the same statement?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Except that I heard all three.
Mr. DEVINE. Is it possible that there could have been more than three
shots, as far as you recollection is concerned?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I guess anything is possible, but I heard three shots.
Mr. DEVINE. You heard three definitely, no less, and probably no more, is
that right?
Mrs. CONNALLY. That is all I heard.
Mr. DEVINE. Governor Connally, you said you heard two shots?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is right.
Mr. DEVINE. The one that hit you you apparently did not hear?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. DEVINE. I would take it then by negative implication that
you
heard no shots coming from your right front?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. DEVINE. In the area that has often been described as the grassy
knoll?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir. And I don't believe any came from there.
Mrs. CONNALLY. We responded to all these shots, so if something came from
the front we certainly would have responded to it, a noise from the front, I
would think.
Mr. DEVINE. All right, getting back prior to the time of the actual
shooting, I think you indicated earlier, Governor, that you had been in, or your
people had been in, somewhat of a dispute with Mr. Bruno and others relative to
even having a motorcade?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir. May I, Congressman Devine, at that point ask that
the record be corrected. In testifying here you reach for times and events and
names and unfortunately I have confused the situation, I suspect, to the
bewilderment of one and the embarrassment of the other, and I said Mr. Hal
Bruno. Mr. Hal Bruno is with Newsweek and now I understand with ABC, and it
wasn't Hal Bruno at all, it was Jerry Bruno, who came down as advance man for
President Kennedy, so I would hope the record would be clarified and corrected,
because earlier I testified in response to Mr. Cornwell that Mr. Hal Bruno did
so and so, it was not Mr. Hal Bruno, it was Mr. Jerry Bruno.
Mr. DEVINE. Fine. I am sure the record will be so corrected. Governor, I
think you testified earlier that you thought perhaps it would be well to avoid
the motorcade because of the very trying day that the President was going
through, the number of appearances he had to make, the number of speeches he had
to make, and the pressures. Did you have any reason to believe that there might
have been some incident on a motorcade route?
Mr. CONNALLY. None at all, Congressman Devine.
Mr. DEVINE. You had no prior information that would suggest that there
may have been problems?
Mr. CONNALLY. None at all.
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Mr. DEVINE. I think there was some testimony that there were, I don't
think they used the word kooks, but some extremist that might display signs or
make remarks that might be embarrassing to the President.
Mr. CONNALLY. When I said not at all, I was speaking in terms I had no
indication, no knowledge, no reason to suspect that there would be any acts of
violence. I assumed from the very beginning when the President came that
somewhere along the route, San Antonio, Houston, Fort Worth, Dallas, Austin,
somewhere that there might be pickets, there might be some embarrassing signs or
something of that kind. Yes; I did assume we would encounter that and frankly we
encountered only one that I remember, and that is far less than I anticipated.
Mr. DEVINE. I suppose you were also, at least in the back of your mind,
aware of the incidents that had occurred to Ambassador
Stevenson
as well as General Walker?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEVINE. And these were matters of concern to you, but you still had
no anticipation that anything of violence might occur, is that correct?
Mr. CONNALLY. NO, sir, and my objection to the motorcade really was not
based on any apprehension of violence, Congressman Devine, it was as I have
testified earlier, in order to try to save the President the wear and tear of a
motorcade and to basically conserve time.
Mr. DEVINE. At any juncture during the planning and scheduling did you
specifically discuss with the Secret Service what possible harm might come to
the President, and, if so, from what source? Either you or your people?
Mr. CONNALLY. Congressman, I don't think so. Some of our people might
have raised that point with the Secret Service but I doubt it, because in none
of our discussions or planning sessions did we dwell on that subject or make any
point of it. It really was not a matter that we were fearful of, frankly.
Mr. DEVINE. But if you had had your way there would have been no
motorcade through the downtown area, you would have gone directly to the---
Mr. CONNALLY. Trade Mart.
Mr. DEVINE. Trade Mart, right.
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes. As a matter of fact, it was quite a point of dispute,
as I say, and we never did agree to it, and finally they not only said we are
going to have a motorcade but we are going to publish the route of it, and I
said, well, that is crazy, I said, because here again I was thinking only in
terms of pickets or embarrasing signs or things of that sort, but indeed they
did, they ran a map of the parade route 3 or 4 days, I think it was Tuesday
before the Friday, in the Dallas papers. Full route of the motorcade.
Mr. DEVINE. Did the newspaper publish the exact route of the motorcade?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think it did. They might have altered the route a bit
from that published map but I think it was a map, precise map of the motorcade.
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Mr. DEVINE. That was published in sufficient time for someone with
perhaps a sinister motive to have placed themselves in the book depository or
elsewhere? Is that so?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think it was published on Tuesday and, of course, the
event occurred on Friday, so they had that much time.
Mr. DEVINE. Mr. Cornwell has pretty well covered all other elements of
the situation, Governor, and I again thank you for your
cooperation,
and you, Mrs. Connally, for being here.
Mr. CONNALLY. Thank you, Congressman.
Chairman STOKES. Time of the gentleman has expired. The Chair
recognizes
the gentleman from
Mr. PREYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally, I know, as Mr. Devine said, that
reliving this experience must be an emotional matter for you and all who have
watched you cannot help but admire your courage in the way you have done that.
I don't know what the stories are that you refer to, Mrs. Connally, about
your conduct after this, but anyone who heard you today certainly could have no
questions about your courage and the character with which you faced this. I also
think you brought back to us in a dramatic way the warmth and excitement of the
I only had one question following up what Mr. Devine asked, and it is
along the line of what information and how early the information would have been
known as to the President's route.
Lee
Mr. CONNALLY. He could have known it before that time, I suspect. I
believe the time of the publication of the Baskin story in the
Mr. PREYER. So he would have known he was coming to
Mr. CONNALLY. I don't think he could have, Congressman Preyer, because up
until the very last, frankly, of that week, we were still arguing about it. We
were still arguing, one, whether or not there would be a motorcade at all, two,
if there was a motorcade, whether or not the route of the motorcade would be
published. And frankly, those who were proponents of the motorcade and of the
route wanted to get the maximum public exposure for the President, and that was
the basic reason for the motorcade, but that issue was not settled until that
week, the week of the visit, so I am sure he couldn't have known precisely prior
to that time because I don't think anyone knew.
Mr. PREYER. Well, from your experience in
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, it is a normal and logical route to take, down Lemon
to Turtle Creek. You can go down either
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Commerce
depending on what your ultimate destination was. But since we were going to the
Trade Mart, it was a logical way to go, although we could have chosen one of the
other streets that runs parallel to Main and Commerce just as well, but probably
we saw more people on the streets that we traveled.
Mr. PREYER. Thank you once again for your testimony.
Mr. CONNALLY. Thank you, Congressman Preyer.
Chairman STOKES. Time of the gentleman has expired. The Chair recognizes
the gentleman from the
Mr. FAUNTROY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you also, Governor and
Mrs. Connally. We do appreciate you recalling the events in
I simply have a couple of questions dealing with the timing of the
publication of the trip: Who knew what and when. I wonder, Governor Connally,
can you tell us who could have been aware of your talks with the President on
June 5 in
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, namely, I would say there were only four of us, maybe
five. The President, the Vice President, was there as I recall, well, I am sure
Kenny O'Donnell was there, I was there. After that time, I am sure they talked
about it, the White House, I am sure the Vice President talked to members of his
staff about it. I certainly went home and talked to various members of my staff
and the State Democratic Party machinery, because we were at that point in
effect committed to a Presidential visit some time that fall, but the details
certainly were not known then.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Do you recall whether you released publicity at that time
about the President's desire to come to
Mr. CONNALLY. I don't believe there was any but I could be wrong about
that, I don't recall any.
Mr. FAUNTROY. You set no tentative schedule at that time?
Mr. CONNALLY. No.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Was there any information at that time that a motorcade
would or would not be used?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I don't think so, Congressman; no.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Was
be
visited?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think from the very outset, from the time of the first
announcement, which I don't think occurred that early, I think Dallas was listed
as one of the cities; yes, as probably one of the cities that would be visited.
Mr. FAUNTROY. You had a visit to the White House on October 4?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Do you recall now how much information had been disclosed
to the public by that time?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think very little because it hadn't jelled really
at
that point, the details had not been worked out at that point.
Mr. FAUNTROY. On October 3 you met with members of the
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I don't, but I suspect no details other than
the
fact that there probably was going to be a Presidential visit, because when I
went in on October 4, really the President was still
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talking
about the four or five fundraising dinners and we really had not made the
ultimate decision about the visit.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the gentleman and Mrs.
Connally, and I will yield back the balance of my time at this time.
Chairman
STOKES. Time of the gentleman has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Mr. MCKINNEY. Governor, nice to see you again. I want to thank both you
and Mrs. Connally for coming and helping us.
When was the final decision made or when did you finally get your way
that the speech would be made at the Trade Mart instead of the Women's Building?
Mr. CONNALLY. I don't remember, Congressman, the precise date, but I
would guess it was a couple of weeks before the visit.
Mr. MCKINNEY. Basically, that was a decision on your part so that the
President could appeal to the conservative faction of the party in
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, well basically, the Women's Building is in the
fairground part of the city. The Trade Mart at that time was a new, exciting
building, out on the Stemmons Freeway, it is a magnificent facility, it is a
beautiful facility. I thought it was the type of thing that particularly
reflected the flare and the style of both President and Mrs. Kennedy. It was a
new building, it is a tremendous thing with an enormous vaulted ceiling.
The Secret Service had some doubts about it because it had balconies
around, but we filled all those balconies with tables. And it was just a better
facility, better parking, easier to get to for everyone, because you get to it
off the Stemmons Freeway, and I thought it just frankly was a much better
facility in order to accommodate the crowd that we wanted to have, 1,800, 2,000
people there, to hear the President.
I didn't know at the time there was a big argument about whether we go to
the Women's Building or the Trade Mart. I didn't go to either of them at the
time. Most of these arguments arose at the staff level and those that they
couldn't settle I would finally hear about and get a hold of and sometimes I
would just make a decision we are going to do thus and so and sometimes I would
call somebody at the White House and get it worked out, but this went on
constantly.
Mr. McKINNEY. In any event, at either building, the motorcade would have
had to go through some part of
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, in any event the motorcade certainly would have gone
through downtown. It would not necessarily have had to go through
Mr. McKINNEY. I see. If you had gone through
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, if you had gone by the school book depository, that is
correct.
Mr. McKINNEY. Thank you very much.
Chairman STOKES. Time of the gentleman has expired.
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The
Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Mr. DODD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor and Mrs. Connally, to repeat what my colleagues have said, we do
appreciate your being here this morning, particularly in recounting what must
have been one of the most agonizing if not the most agonizing moments of your
lives.
I would like to just go back over, if I could, those seconds at the time
that the shots rang out. Let me try and repeat what I understood to be your
testimony, you correct me if I am wrong anywhere in terms of my understanding of
the sequence of events as they occurred.
First, you, Mrs. Connally, because there is a bit of a difference as I
heard both of your responses.
You heard a shot, what appeared or sounded like a shot, a sharp
noise,
to you? You turned to your left or your right?
Mrs. CONNALLY. My right.
Mr. DODD. You turned to your right. As you turned around and
saw
the President, you saw him clutching his throat?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I saw him reach up to his throat.
Mr. DODD. Both hands were on his throat?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DODD. Did you see any blood at all?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No.
Mr. DODD. Then did you turn back or did you hear the second shot?
Mrs. CONNALLY. See, I don't know, I don't know.
Mr. DODD. You don't know which you did first?
Mrs. CONNALLY. What do you mean?
Mr. DODD. Well, you saw him clutch.
Mrs. CONNALLY. I looked back and I guess I just stayed looking back until
I heard the second shot.
Mr. DODD. So, you are still looking at the President and it is your
recollection
that you then heard what sounded like a second shot?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DODD. Is that correct?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes. What was a second shot.
Mr. DODD. At that point your husband, Governor Connally, slumped over in
your direction?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he lunged forward and then just kind of collapsed
Mr. DODD. And, then collapsed.
Mrs. CONNALLY. But not just straight up.
Mr. DODD. And then you heard a third shot or what appeared to be a third
shot?
Mrs. CONNALLY. After I pulled him down.
Mr. DODD. You did hear--
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did hear a third shot.
Mr. DODD. At that point you then noticed the material?
Mrs. CONNALLY. All over.
Mr. DODD. The blood and so forth?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. DODD. When you turned and saw the President holding his throat, as I
understood your testimony, the President didn't utter any sound or any word at
all, to your recollection?
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Mrs. CONNALLY. Nothing.
Mr. DODD. Now. Governor, as I understood it from what your
testimony
was, you heard what sounded like a shot?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. DODD. And you turned to your right?
Mr. CONNALLY. Right.
Mr. DODD. But you did not see the President when you turned around?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct, I didn't turn all the way around, I was
sitting, basically facing forward. I heard the shot, I looked over my right
shoulder, I did not see the President out of the corner of my eye, and I
mentally said I will turn to my left and see if I can see him, and I never made
that full turn, I got halfway back facing forward when I was hit.
Mr. DODD. And did I understand your testimony correctly when you stated
that you didn't actually hear a second shot but rather you felt the impact as if
someone had punched you almost in the back, a sharp blow to your back?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. DODD. But you did not hear that?
Mr. CONNALLY. I was not conscious of hearing the second shot.
Mr. DODD. Did you hear what could have been a second or a third shot?
That was the only shot you heard, was the one that caused you to turn to your
right?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I heard another shot which was the shot that was fired
after Nellie had pulled me down into her lap. It was the second shot I heard,
the third shot she heard.
The second shot I heard was the one that hit the President in the head.
Mr. DODD. OK. You did not immediately go unconscious?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, I did not. I knew exactly what was happening in the car
and I didn't testify to a moment ago but I should because I remember precisely
what my wife remembers. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say "they have killed my
husband," and then she said, in just an incredulous voice,
I have got his brains in my hand. I
heard that. I was still conscious. I heard Roy Kellerman say to Bill Green, the
driver, and perhaps to others, get out of here fast. Those things, that is all
that was said in that car.
Mr. DODD. Recognizing, of course, we are now asking you to recall
something that occurred this many years ago, but if I could ask you to quantify
in a frame of time, how long a period would it have been between the time you
heard that first noise, that sounded to you as if it were a shot, you turned
right, and the period in which you felt the impact in your back?
Mr. CONNALLY. Congressman, you know, I think it is impossible for me to
say with precision, but obviously a very short period of time, a matter of
seconds, because it was, you know, I think undoubtedly a fairly fluid movement.
I heard the shot, I reacted by looking, I saw nothing, and I was in the process
of turning when I felt the impact. I guess 6, 8, or 10 seconds, in that range,
but I certainly couldn't be more precise than that, but it wasn't long.
Mr. DODD. Could it have been a second? What you are telling me it is more
like 2, 3, 4 seconds. It wasn't something that happened almost instantaneously?
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Mr. CONNALLY. No, it was not. It could not have been 1 second.
Mr. DODD. Thank you both.
Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
Chairman STOKES. Time of the gentleman has expired.
The
Chair recognizes the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Fithian.
Mr. FITHIAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor and Mrs. Connally,
welcome; under the circumstances, we deeply appreciate your help.
Governor, the two shots you heard, did they sound exactly alike, as
nearly as you can remember?
Mr. CONNALLY. Did they sound exactly--
Mr. FITHIAN. Exactly alike?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes. I found, I remember no distinction, Congressman
Fithian, between the two shots.
Mr. FITHIAN. And the shot that struck you, just in that split second,
before you heard that or felt that impact, did you hear any other impact like
the third shot made? Was there any sound in the split second before impact
somewhere else before it hit you?
Mr. CONNALLY. No.
Mr. FITHIAN. Now, if I understand your summary, Mrs. Connally, the first
shot would have come through the President's throat, and that was, you said---
Mrs. CONNALLY. I assumed when I saw him.
Mr. FITHIAN. And it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. FITHIAN. And it wasn't until after the third shot that you saw the
brain matter, and so forth?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Instantly, the shot, the car was covered, it was like
buckshot falling all over us.
Mr. FITHIAN. So your clear recollection is that you can account for
something happening with each of the three shots that you heard fired?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. FITHIAN. Governor, you testified earlier, I believe, that you thought
that both shots fired were rifle shots. You feel that you are able to
distinguish between a rifle and pistol shot?
Mr. CONNALLY. I guess you could simulate circumstances under which I
would probably fail the test, Congressman, but I think I can distinguish the
difference. At least at that point in time I thought it was a rifle shot to me,
and I haven't in all the intervening years, have not run any tests, I have not
listened to any tests, but to me a pistol shot has a flatter, louder kind of a
bang type of sound to it. A rifle shot has a rather singing crack to it. It is
more like a crack and then you get a kind of singing sound with a rifle shot,
and it is an entirely different sound from a pistol, from a shotgun, from a
rifle.
Mr. FITHIAN. One last question, Mr. Chairman. When you heard any of the
two shots that you heard, Governor, or any of the three that you heard, Mrs.
Connally, was there any echo; did you hear any echo from the building, or was
there any sort of a sound effect along with it?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No.
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Mr. CONNALLY. Congressman, I wasn't conscious of any echoes. I am sure
there probably were some but I certainly was not aware of them.
Mr. FITHIAN. What you heard was a very clear distinct shot, period; that
is your recollection?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, sir, absolutely.
Mr. FITHIAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired.
The
Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Mr. SAWYER. Governor and Mrs. Connally I recognize that you probably
don't view yourselves as a ballistics expert, by any means, but I assume you
have done some hunting and you are familiar with firearms, from the way you
talk?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes, I have done a great deal.
Mr. SAWYER. So we are not talking to someone totally inexperienced when
we are talking about whether or not you can identify a rifle shot?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir, I have shot a rifle all my life and have done a
great deal of hunting.
Mr. SAWYER. I suppose, too, that--I have just been thinking since I heard
your testimony and I am sure you have thought about it, many, many more times,
and without either being a medical expert or a ballistic expert, I presume it is
reasonable to assume that with a Mannlicher/Carcano traveling at least twice the
speed of sound, the projectile must be 2,200 feet per second, or more, I assume,
that the bullet would reach you before the sound would reach you, and with that
kind of an impact on your nervous system, whether conscious or not, you probably
wouldn't have registered the sound, if there was one, of the bullet that hit
you?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I think that is precisely what happened, Congressman, no
question about it. That is why I don't think there is anyway the first bullet
hit me. I heard that sound. And I had not been hit, I heard the first rifle
shot, and I did not hear, was not conscious of the shot that hit me, and
obviously the bullet reached me before the sound did. So the shock of the hit
that I took, I was just totally unconscious of the sound, yet by the third shot,
when Mrs. Connally pulled me down in her lap, I was awake, my eyes were open, I
heard the shot fired, I heard it hit, and I saw the results, very clearly and
you know--you have a lot of expert testimony, and I am delighted with the work
of this committee, because hopefully we can clear up some of the speculation and
the questions that have been asked over the years, but let me assure you that we
may be wrong in what we say, we may be wrong in our impression, we may be wrong
when asked precise questions about time, whether it is 2 seconds or 10 seconds
under those circumstances I can't say with certainty the precise second that
things happen, but the things that we do remember, and the things that we are
testifying to here today, Congressman, are as indelibly etched in our minds as
anything could ever be, and I will merely ask you to give yourselves the test,
ask any adult person, over the age of 30, in this country, or over the age of 35
we will say, where they were when they first heard the news of the
assassination. They can tell you where they were, what they were doing, and who
they were with. I have not asked one human being in the world,
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not
anywhere in the world, that hasn't been able to tell me where they were, what
they were doing, and who they were with at the time they first heard the news.
The only point I am making is that there are certain impacts on human
consciousness, on the human mind, that are indelibly etched there, now, and
these things are engraved in our minds, beyond any doubt.
I can't, I am not going to argue with a ballistic expert or acoustics
expert about the precise time or the frame of the Zapruder films, I can't tell
you precisely whether it is frame 231 or 234, when the first evidence shows that
I am reacting to the shot, but what we are saying to you, the things that we say
to you with certain definiteness, it is because we are absolutely sure, at least
in our own minds, that that is what happened and that is what we remember.
Mr. SAWYER. I want to join the rest of my colleagues in expressing our
appreciation to you, Governor and Mrs. Connally, for coming up, and I want to
compliment you on the obvious frankness touched with a little humor, as best you
can in this kind of situation, and your warmth coming across, I appreciate it
very much. It kind of gave me a perspective on this that somebody there can only
give. You got across as good a communication of it, at least to me, as I have
heard.
Chairman STOKES. Mr. Edgar.
Mr. EDGAR. Thank you, Governor and Mrs. Connally. I, too, want to welcome
you here and to compliment you on your frankness in sharing your firsthand
knowledge of this tragic event.
I just have two lines of questioning, which will be very brief. I noted
in the schedule that on November 21 there was a motorcade through
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, there was a motorcade; yes, in a sense. We went from
the airport, Havre Airport, where the plane landed, down the Gulf Freeway to
downtown Houston and we had, as I say, we rather planned it this way because it
was a way to automatically assure yourself of a crowd.
Mr. EDGAR. Were the crowds similar in
Mr. CONNALLY. No; they were not because it was not the same type of
event. We didn't plan a motorcade of that type. What occurred in
So people were standing on their fenders, if they had fenders, if not,
they opened the door, stood inside the car, they were in the pickups, shouting
and waving and that sort of thing. There was not the mass number of people that
we saw at either
Mr. EDGAR. And the speed of the motorcade was different?
Mr. CONNALLY. Was entirely different. I would say in
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Mr. EDGAR. The motorcade in
fact
to be worked by the President in a slow moving motorcade?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. EDGAR. Were the automobiles in both motorcades identical?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think so. I think the President's car was flown from one
place to another. I think we were riding in the same car.
Mr. EDGAR. Do you know if the President's car was equipped with any kind
of facility to have visual sighting of the President even with the top down?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes; I think we had a bubble top but it was never used.
Mr. EDGAR. Do you know whose decision it was not to use the bubble top?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir.
Mr. EDGAR. And the bubble top was not used in
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir.
Mr. EDGAR. Were there any different security procedures that you know of
for the
Mr. CONNALLY. I don't think so, Congressman. If there were any there were
probably more people involved simply because of the nature of the visit to
Dallas, we were going to have the motorcade, it was going to be a motorcade
where we were traveling at 25 miles an hour, as opposed to 50 miles an hour on
the Gulf Freeway in Houston, for instance, so I think there were a great many
more security people involved up and down the parade route in Dallas than there
were in Houston.
That was a normal thing, I don't think it was unusual because of any
anticipated difficulties.
Mr. EDGAR. But you were not approached by the Secret Service to do
anything special?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, the Secret Service were working with department of
public safety and the Dallas Police Department and I don't
recall
any real difficulties with respect to security.
Mr. EDGAR. Thank you. Just one final question.
I was wondering about the injuries that you have received, the shot
through the right shoulder and the wrist injury and the leg injury, are they
recurring problems for you at this time?
Mr. CONNALLY. No, sir. The shoulder injury, the back injury, was healed
fairly well. The bullet split my right lung and as I recall, the doctor told me
it was like it had been cut with a knife, they took out, I believe, the fifth
and sixth ribs, but I learned something new, the ribs grew back, which I didn't
realize they would do.
So the only thing I have had over the years, and that is my fault, not
any medical problem, my right shoulder and arm have been a bit weaker than the
left simply because I think I didn't do enough exercising with it after the
injury to rebuild the muscles and at least one muscle was cut in the process by
either the shot or the operation.
The wrist is fine. Dr. Gregory, when he set the wrist, told me that he
thought it would not heal properly because he had no bone to tie to, and he
would do his best, that we would probably have to rebreak the wrist and reset it
after some of the bones healed because it broke every bone in the wrist, but
after about 90 days,
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when
they finally took the cast off, the wrist had healed sufficiently to where we
weren't about to break that wrist, and I have substantially all the use of it,
the only thing I can't do is to turn my wrist over.
Mrs. CONNALLY. He can't take change but I can pick it up for him.
Mr. CONNALLY. It is strange, little things like that. This is where you
recognize it. To take change I have to do this kind of thing, to flatten my
hand, because normally you can hold your elbow on the table and flip your hand
over. I can't do it. There is a stiffness in the wrist but there is no pain
associated with it, no disability at all, and the leg has caused me no trouble.
So I am in fine shape.
Mr. EDGAR. There is absolutely no doubt in your mind that all of the
injuries that occurred to you occurred by one bullet passing through your body.?
Mr. CONNALLY. I think beyond any question it did. Congressman, probably I
should add in response to your question that one of the reasons I may have had
the wrist injury, I had a hat that day, and sometimes I had the hat on and
sometimes I didn't, and when I didn't have it on I was holding the thing, and,
of course, the President never wore one.
When I held it, I normally held it in pretty much this position. I held
it in front of me and I suspect that one of two things happened, and I don't
remember precisely, that I was either holding my hat, so that when that bullet
came out of my chest right here and went right into my arm and down into my leg,
or that is one explanation of why my wrist was broken, or in the process of
turning perhaps I had put my right arm on my left leg to make it turn to my
left, as I testified, I would not have done that to look over my right shoulder,
it would have been the reverse type of movement, my right arm would have been to
my right, looking over my right shoulder, but in the process of turning to look
over my left shoulder, it is a logical thing to move your arm, and maybe I put
it on my wrist, and maybe I had my hat in my hand, but in any event, the wrist
happened to be right in front of the place where the bullet came out.
Mr. EDGAR. Thank you.
I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from the
Mr. FAUNTROY. Yes sir, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
I just have one question on the firing. Governor, and Mrs. Connally, both
of you are familiar with the single bullet theory, are you not? My question,
Governor Connally, is, given Mrs. Connally's recollection that there were three
shots: The first of which hit the President, the second of which hit you, and
the third of which hit the President; I wonder if it is your impression that the
first shot that you heard missed, or whether it is your impression that the
first shot which you heard was the first
shot
which Mrs. Connally heard, which in her view caused the President to grab his
throat?
Mr. CONNALLY. Do you want to answer that?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No.
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Mr. CONNALLY. I will answer it. I don't know what the first shot did. All
I know, all I am certain of in my own mind is that the first shot did not hit
me. Now, according to Mrs. Connally's testimony, the first shot did hit the
President and that is when she turned around and saw him grasp his throat.
Mrs. CONNALLY. And later, the doctors said that there was a bullet that
went through the fleshy part of his neck, that would not have killed the
President, had that been the only shot he took.
So
obviously that is why he was reaching up for his throat.
Mr. FAUNTROY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman
from
Mr. FITHIAN. One quick followup question.
When you turned, Mrs. Connally, and saw the President, do you remember
seeing the Governor, seeing where he was looking?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard the noise, I turned in the direction
of
the noise, and I observed the President and I was horrified.
Mr. FITHIAN. Thank you.
Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. Cornwell,
anything further?
Mr. CORNWELL. NO, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman STOKES. Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally, under the rules of
our committee, any witness appearing before our committee giving testimony is to
be extended 5 minutes at the conclusion of their testimony, for the purpose of
explaining or in any way amplifying or expanding upon their testimony before the
committee. I wish to extend to both of you at this time 5 minutes in order to
make any further comments that you so desire?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I have nothing.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Chairman, let me, for both of us, express our gratitude
to you, Chairman Stokes, and to all the members of the committee, to the staff
of the committee, for what has been an obvious workman-like approach that staff
has used in trying to develop all of the facts relating to this tragic event in
the life of this Nation.
Unfortunately, I think for the peace of mind of a great many people, much
speculation has arisen, many rumors have flowed, many theories have been
advanced. This committee is going to be faced, I think, with the same task that
the Warren Commission was faced with; namely, how do you prove a negative, how
do you prove there was no conspiracy? I think that is the task that you have.
You have assembled a staff of obviously competent people with a
determination to try to adduce all of the evidence that is available in the
world, to properly analyze it and to properly present it, and to that extent I
think the committee is undertaking a task which I am fearful will not answer all
of the problems but, nevertheless, your report will undoubtedly shed a great
deal of light on the tragedy that this Nation had and that this Nation will live
with.
I wish I could believe that all of the speculation will end, that all the
answers will be given, all the rumors dispelled, all the theories dissipated,
but I don't believe that, and it won t be the fault of the staff nor the fault
of this committee, I think it will be a mere result of circumstances that are
incapable of proof.
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But for your effort and for your time, for your obvious dedication, we
are grateful because we have obviously been a part of this event and we will
always be a part of it, and so the more that the American people can understand
I think the better the Nation is.
I would make one other comment, Mr. Chairman, that is a gratuitous
comment, that I hope is not inappropriate at this moment.
Part of your task is to analyze the effectiveness of the Secret Service,
the FBI, the other police agencies in the furtherance of their duties with
respect to this tragic occurence. As Secretary of the Treasury, as you know, I
had jurisdiction over the Secret Service. On many occasions, I talked to them
about the problem of personal security of a President, of visiting dignitaries,
and others. I happen to be of the view very much as your chief counsel, Mr.
Blakey, said of President Kennedy, if there is
a
determined assassin, that beyond any question he can be successful. I don't
think there is enough protection that any man in public life is going to
surround himself with that will preclude a determined assassin from carrying out
his mission.
I can only say to you that I think the Secret Service was determined and
dedicated to protect the life of the President, and unfortunately they failed.
Senator Kennedy had security but they were unable to cope with his assassin.
President Ford, if you will recall, also had security, a great amount of
security, but they probably would have failed, too, if the young lady had known
how to use a gun.
So, that finally, I am simply saying to you I don't know that any
political figure in this country can be spared an assassin's bullet if indeed
there is a dedicated assassin. So I would hope that the American people would
understand that the mere fact that the Secret Service failed was not a failure
of desire, not a failure of dedication, not a failure of talent, but rather a
failure of an evitable circumstance.
Finally, again, let me express for Mrs. Connally and myself our
appreciation for your kindness and for your courtesy and for the tremendous task
that you have undertaken.
Chairman STOKES. Governor, if I can just say to both you and Mrs.
Connally on behalf of this committee, and the House of Representatives, we are
indeed grateful to you for having appeared here today. Both of you in a very
articulate way have made a contribution to our work, for which we are indeed
grateful, and we thank you for having been here. Thank you very much.
Mrs. CONNALLY. Thank you, sir.
Chairman STOKES. Our hearing is now recessed until 2 p.m. this afternoon.
[Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 2
p.m., the afternoon of the same day.]
AFTERNOON
SESSION
Chairman STOKES. The committee will come to order. The Chair, at this
time, recognizes Professor Blakey.
G.
Robert Blakey
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