Dr.
LIGHT Volume V
TESTIMONY
OF DR. FREDERICK W. LIGHT, JR.
Mr. DULLES. Doctor, would you give your full name?
Dr. LIGHT. Frederick W. Light, Jr.
Mr. DULLES. Would you raise your right hand?
Do you swear that the testimony that you will give before this Commission
is the truth, the whole truth, so help you God?
Dr. LIGHT. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Light, the purpose of asking you to appear today is to
question you concerning the results of tests taken at the
Dr. LIGHT. Frederick W. Light, Jr.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your business or profession, sir?
Dr. LIGHT. I am a physician specializing in pathology.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your educational background?
Dr. LIGHT. I have an A.B. from
Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline your experience since 1933 in a very
general way, please?
Dr. LIGHT. Well, in 1933 I was still at the
Mr. DULLES. To study mathematics?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes. And then in
1952, or 1951, excuse me, I began working at
Mr. SPECTER. What have your duties consisted of while working at
Dr. LIGHT. Primarily the study of pathology of wounding.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your formal title there now, Dr. Light?
Dr. LIGHT. I am chief of the Wound Assessment Branch and assistant chief
of the Biophysics Division.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your relationship to Dr. Olivier and Dr.
Dziemian?
Dr. LIGHT. Dr. Dziemian is the chief of the division.
Dr. Olivier is chief of one of the branches, and I am chief of one of the
other branches.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you been present here today to hear the full testimony
of Dr. Olivier?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And were the tests which he described conducted under your
joint supervision with Dr. Olivier?
Dr. LIGHT. Only a very general way. I
wouldn't want to say I supervised him at all. We discussed what he was going to
do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would it be more accurate to state that you coordinated with
him in the tests which were under his general supervision?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; that might be stretching it a bit even.
Mr. SPECTER. How would you characterize your participation?
Dr. LIGHT. Largely---originally Dr. Dziemian, as I recall, was ill, and
by the
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time
we began to do these specific tests that you mention, Dr. Dziemian was back on
the job again. So he took over
whatever supervision was needed.
Mr. SPECTER. Were the tests which Dr. Olivier described made at the
request of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; they were.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add by way of any detail to the
findings reported by Dr. Olivier in his testimony here earlier today?
Dr. LIGHT. No; I think he covered it very thoroughly.
Mr. SPECTER. And as to the conclusions and opinions which he expressed,
do you agree or disagree, to some extent, on his conclusions?
Dr. LIGHT. I agree in general at least. I am not quite so certain about
some of the things, but generally I certainly agree with what he said.
Mr. DULLES. What are the things on which you are not quite so certain?
Dr. LIGHT. For example, I am not quite as sure in my mind as I believe he
is that the bullet that struck the Governor was almost certainly one which had
hit something else first. I believe
it could have produced that wound even though it hadn't hit the President or any
other person or object first.
Mr. DULLES. That is the wound, then, in the thigh?
Dr. LIGHT. No; in the chest.
Mr. DULLES. I was thinking that the wound in the thigh--let me start
again. As I understand the previous testimony, Dr. Olivier would have expected
the wound in the thigh to be more serious if it had not hit some object.
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. Prior to entering Governor Connally's body, but you feel that
the wound in the thigh might be consistent?
Dr. LIGHT. The wound in the thigh is the terminal end, is the far end of
the whole track. I don't believe that in passing through the tissue which was
simulated by what Dr. Olivier described first, 13 or 14 centimeters of gelatin,
I don't believe that the change in velocity introduced by the passage through
that much tissue can be relied upon to make such a definite difference in the
effect.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you believe that if the Governor had been struck by a
pristine bullet which had gone through his chest, that it would have caused no
more damage than which appeared on the Governor's chest?
Dr. LIGHT. I think that is possible; yes.
I might say I think perhaps the best, the most likely thing is what
everyone else has said so far, that the bullet did go through the President's
neck and then through the chest and then through the wrist and then into the
thigh.
Mr. SPECTER. You think that is the most likely possibility?
Dr. LIGHT. I think that is probably the most likely, but I base that not
entirely on the anatomical findings but as much on the circumstances.
Mr. SPECTER. What are the circumstances which lead you to that
conclusion?
Dr. LIGHT. The relative positions in the automobile of the President and
the Governor.
Mr. SPECTER. Are there any other circumstances which contribute to that
conclusion, other than the anatomical findings?
Dr. LIGHT. And the appearance of the bullet that was found and the place
it was found, presumably, the bullet was the one which wounded the Governor.
Mr. SPECTER. The whole bullet?
Dr. LIGHT. The whole bullet.
Mr. SPECTER. Identified as Commission Exhibit No. 399?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And what about that whole bullet leads you to believe that
the one bullet caused the President's neck wound and all of the wounds on
Governor Connally?
Dr. LIGHT. Nothing about that bullet. Mainly the position in which they
are seated in the automobile.
Mr. SPECTER. So in addition to the----
Dr. LIGHT. And the fact that the bullet that passed through the
President's body lost very little velocity since it passed through soft tissue,
so that it would strike the Governor, if it did, with a velocity only, what was
it, 100 feet per second, very little lower than it would have if it hadn't
struck anything else
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first.
I am not sure, I didn't see,
of course, none of us saw the wounds in the Governor in the fresh state or any
other time, and I am not too convinced from the measurements and the
descriptions that were given in the surgical reports and so on that the actual
holes through the skin were unusually large.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you had access to the autopsy records?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And have you had access to the reports of
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. All three of them?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And have you had an opportunity to view the films of the
assassination commonly known as the Zapruder films?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And the slides?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And have you had an opportunity to talk to Dr. Shaw and Dr.
Gregory who performed the thoracic and wrist operations on Governor Connally?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And you heard Governor Connally's version yourself?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; but not in----
Mr. SPECTER. Not in the Commission?
Dr. LIGHT. Not in the Commission session.
Mr. SPECTER. But at the time when the films were viewed by the Governor?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; I did.
Mr. SPECTER. At the VFW building on the first floor?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Focusing on a few of the specific considerations, do you
believe that there would have been the same amount of damage done to the
Governor's wrist had the pristine bullet only passed through the Governor's body
without striking the President first?
Dr. LIGHT. I think that is possible; yes. It won't happen the same way
twice in any case, so you have got a fairly wide range of things that can happen
if a person is shot in more or less this way.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you think it is as likely that the damage would have been
inflicted on the Governor's wrist as it was, with the bullet passing only
through the Governor's chest as opposed to passing through the President's neck
and the Governor's chest?
Dr. LIGHT. I think the difference in likelihood is negligible on that
basis alone.
Mr. SPECTER. So the damage on the Governor's wrist would be equally
consistent----
Dr. LIGHT, Equally consistent; yes.
Mr. SPECTER. With (A) passing only through the Governor's chest, or (B)
passing through the President's neck and the Governor's chest?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, as to the damage on the thigh, would the nature of that
wound again be equally consistent with either going through (A) the President's
neck, the Governor's chest, the Governor's wrist, and then into the thigh, or
(B) only through the Governor's chest, the Governor's wrist and into the thigh?
Dr. LIGHT. I'd say equally consistent; yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And based on the descriptions which have been provided to
you about the nature of the wound on the Governor's back, do you have an opinion
as to whether the bullet was yawing or not at the time it struck the Governor's
back?
Mr. LIGHT. No; I don't. That is really one of the points----
Mr. SPECTER. It would be either way?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; I don't feel too certain that it was yawing.
The measurements were not particularly precise as far as I could tell.
You wouldn't expect them to be in an operating room. So I think it is difficult
to be sure there that
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the
missile wasn't presenting nose on. It undoubtedly struck not at normal instance,
that is to say it was a certain obliquity, just in the nature of the way the
shoulder is built.
Mr. SPECTER. Then do you think based on only the anatomical findings and
the results of the tests which Dr. Olivier has performed that the scales are in
equipoise as to whether the bullet passed through the President first and then
through the Governor or passed only through the Governor?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; I would say I don't feel justified in drawing a
conclusion one way or the other on that basis alone.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any preference of any sort?
Dr. LIGHT. Yes; I do, for other reasons.
Mr. SPECTER. But only for the other reasons?
Dr. LIGHT. As I mentioned, their positions in the automobile, the fact
that if it wasn't the way--if one bullet didn't produce all of the wounds in
both of the individuals, then that bullet ought to be somewhere, and hasn't been
found. But those are not based on Dr. Olivier's tests nor are they based on the
autopsy report or the surgeon's findings in my mind.
( Discussion off the record.)
Mr. DULLES. On the record.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Light, do you have an opinion as to whether or not the
wound inflicted on Governor Connally's wrist could have been caused by a
fragment which struck the President's head?
Dr. LIGHT. It is barely conceivable but I do not believe that that is the
case.
Mr. SPECTER. You say barely?
Dr. LIGHT. Barely conceivable. I
mean a fragment probably had enough velocity, it couldn't have produced that
wound, in my mind, but it can't be ruled out with complete certainty.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think would be helpful
to the Commission in any way?
Dr. LIGHT. I don't believe I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Those are all the questions I have, Commissioner Dulles.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you very much indeed.
I express our appreciation. I
didn't realize these tests were being carried out. I am very glad they have
been. It is a very useful thing to do and very helpful to the Commission. Thank
you very much I want to thank all
three of you doctors for having so fully cooperated in this matter, and I think
that these tests that you have run have made a real contribution to the
Commission's work.
(Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
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