TESTIMONY OF GUY F. ROSE

The testimony of Guy F. Rose was taken at 3 p.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Will you please hold up your right hand to be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. ROSE. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, now, please?
Mr. ROSE. G.F. Rose, 714 Hall Road, Seagoville.
Mr. BALL. What is your business?
Mr. ROSE. I am a police officer, a detective assigned to the homicide and robbery bureau.
Mr. BALL. How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. ROSE. Ten years.
Mr. BALL. Where were you born?
Mr. ROSE. I was born in Grannis, Ark.
Mr. BALL. And where did you go to school?
Mr. ROSE. I finished high school in Grand Prairie High School and attended grade school at Shady Grove Independent School District between Irving and Grand Prairie.
Mr. BALL. And what have you done since then?
Mr. ROSE. Well, after I finished high school I went to work for a construction company as a timekeeper and worked until I was 21. Then I went on the police department.
Mr. BALL. You have been on the police department ever since you were 21 years old?
Mr. ROSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That was what year?
Mr. ROSE. It was in 1954.
Mr. BALL. On the 22d of November, 1963, were you on duty?

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Mr. ROSE. I went on duty shortly after the assassination. At the time of the assassination I was not on duty.
Mr. BALL. Did somebody call you and ask you to come on duty?
Mr. ROSE. No; I came in just as soon as I heard of the shooting--I came on to work.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to work?
Mr. ROSE. I reported to the homicide office. It's room 317 at the city hall.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?
Mr. ROSE. There were some people in the office from the Book Depository and we talked to a few of them and then in just a few minutes they brought in Lee Oswald and I talked to him for a few minutes?
Mr. BALL. What did you say to him or did he say to you?
Mr. ROSE. Well, the first thing I asked him was what his name was and he told me it was Hidell.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you it was Hidell?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; he did.
Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald?
Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out." And then in just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he told me to get two men and go to Irving and search his house.
Mr. BALL. Now, when he first came in there--you said that he said his name was "Hidell"?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was that before you saw the two cards?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; it was.
Mr. BALL. Did he give you his first name?
Mr. ROSE. He just said "Hidell"; I remember he just gave me the last name of "Hidell".
Mr. BALL. And then you found two or three cards on him?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. Did you search him?
Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.
Mr. BALL. And the contents of the billfold supposedly were before you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Were you sitting down?
Mr. ROSE. No; I was standing in the interrogation room.
Mr. BALL. Where was he--was he standing too?
Mr. ROSE. No; he was sitting in the chair.
Mr. BALL. Was he handcuffed?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; he was.
Mr. BALL. Were the handcuffs behind or in front of him?
Mr. ROSE. I believe they were behind him--I don't remember for sure.
Mr. BALL. Who else was present at that time?
Mr. ROSE. Detective Stovall, he was my partner, and I believe both uniformed men were present--two of the uniformed men were present.
Mr. BALL. The ones who brought him in?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Do you know their names?
Mr. ROSE. I don't remember--I did see McDonald and I did talk to him, but I don't remember whether he was the one that was standing right there at the time or not.
Mr. BALL. After you saw the cards, you asked him which one was his true name?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. ROSE. He said, "You find out."

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Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what his address was?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; but from there, he wouldn't tell me--he just said, "You just find out."
Mr. BALL. Now, did anybody ever tell you that his address was 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. ROSE. Later they did--right then they didn't; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. You didn't know it at that time?
Mr. ROSE. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. How soon after that did you go out to Irving--to the Irving Street address?
Mr. ROSE. In just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he instructed me to get two men and go to Irving to the Ruth Paine home and so I went immediately.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you "the Ruth Paine home," or did he tell you to go to a certain address in Irving?
Mr. ROSE. I believe he gave me the address.
Mr. BALL. What was the address?
Mr. ROSE. 2515 West Fifth in Irving.
Mr. BALL. How many men went out there?
Mr. ROSE. There was me, and Detective Adamcik and Detective Stovall, and on the way, we radioed and asked for a county unit to meet us, and we were met by Detectives Harry Weatherford, E.W. Walthers, and J.L. Oxford, detectives for the county CID--we waited about 40 minutes and they came and met us.
Mr. BALL. Did you have a search warrant?
Mr. ROSE. No; we didn't.
Mr. BALL. How did you get in the house?
Mr. ROSE. We walked up to the house, me and Stovall and one of the county officers, and I could hear the TV was playing, and I could see the door was standing open--the front door was--and I could see two people sitting inside the living room on the couch, and just as soon as we walked up on the porch, Ruth Paine came to the door. She apparently recognized us--she said, "I've been expecting you all," and we identified ourselves, and she said, "Well, I've been expecting you to come out. Come right on in."
Mr. BALL. Did she say why she had been expecting you?
Mr. ROSE. She said, "Just as soon as I heard where the shooting happened. I knew there would be someone out."
Mr. BALL. You took part in the search, didn't you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. What part did you take?
Mr. ROSE. Well, I was the senior detective that was there, and so I was sort of the spokesman for the group, I suppose, and Stovall wen into the bedroom of Marina Oswald--Marina Oswald's bedroom, and I don't remember where Adamcik went first, but I talked with Ruth Paine a few minutes and she told me that Marina was there and that she was Lee Oswald's wife and that she was a citizen of Russia, and so I called Captain Fritz on the phone and told him what I had found out there and asked him if there was any special instructions, and he said, "Well, ask her about her husband, ask her if her husband has a rifle." I turned and asked Marina, but she didn't seem to understand. She said she couldn't understand, so Ruth Paine spoke in Russian to her and Ruth Paine also interpreted for me, and she said that Marina said--first she said Marina said "No," and then a minute Marina said, "Yes, he does have." So, then I talked to Captain Fritz for a moment and hung up the phone and I asked Marina if she would show me where his rifle was and Ruth Paine interpreted and Marina pointed to the garage and she took me to the garage and she pointed to a blanket that was rolled up and laying on the floor near the wall of the garage and Ruth Paine said, "Says that that's where his rifle is." Well, at the time I couldn't tell whether there was one in there or not. It appeared to be--it was in sort of an outline of a rifle.
Mr. BALL. You mean the blanket had the outline of a rifle?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; it did.
Mr. BALL. Was it tied at one end?

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Mr. ROSE. Yes, sir; it was sort of rolled up, but it was flattened out from laying down and tied near the middle, I would say, with a cord and so I went on and picked the blanket up, but it was empty--it didn't have the rifle in it.
Mr. BALL. You brought that in?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. What else did you see?
Mr. ROSE. I didn't make very much of a search of the garage at that time. I came back into the house and talked with Marina some more and talked with Ruth Paine some and was busy trying to make arrangements to get someone to come down and take care of Ruth Paine's children and Marina's children so I could bring them to the city hall and I did assist Stovall and Adamcik in this search, briefly--I didn't do too much.
Mr. BALL. Could I see the report there, please?
Mr. ROSE. Yes--I wrote that report shortly after the 24th--I believe it was around the 24th, but I don't remember for sure what date I wrote it. I wrote it from some notes that I had taken.
Mr. BALL. Now, after you were there for a little while, did Michael Paine come in?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we had only been there a few minutes and we were in plain cars, so I don't know whether he knew we were there. He didn't appear to know we were there, and he walked up the sidewalk and just walked in the door without knocking, and I was standing just around the corner talking to Ruth Paine and she was standing in his view and he didn't see any of the officers--we were all out of sight at that time, and he walked in and he said, "I came to help you. Just as soon as I heard where it happened, I knew you would need some help." Then he apparently saw us and then he spoke to us.
Mr. BALL. Did Marina Oswald tell you--point to the blanket and say something?
Mr. ROSE. She pointed to the blanket and said something in Russian and Ruth Paine was standing right there beside her and she interpreted for me--she said, "That's where her husband's rifle is."
Mr. BALL. About that time, while you were there, did a Mrs. Linnie Randle come over to you?
Mr. ROSE. She might have come up to the yard and I didn't talk with her--I saw her out in the yard--I didn't talk to her.
Mr. BALL. You didn't talk to her at all?
Mr. ROSE. At that time I didn't--I did later.
Mr. BALL. You brought Ruth Paine and Marina down to the police department, did you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we took Ruth Paine and Marina and Marina's two children in our car and also the blanket--I carried it.
Mr. BALL. And the rest of that day you spent in inquiring for and looking around for Wesley Frazier?
Mr. ROSE. Well, we came on back to the city hall and we took Ruth Paine and Michael Paine and Marina Oswald to the homicide office, but it was so crowded that we transferred them to the forgery bureau office next door, and then someone came over and I believe it was the Detective Senkel, to take affidavits from them and I immediately started trying to locate Wesley Frazier. We were told that he would be at Parkland Hospital, but we checked through Parkland and there was no Fraziers there and I started a heck of the clinics and the doctors' offices in Irving, and I located through one of the nurses, I believe, or talked to someone on the phone there that Mr. Frazier was in the hospital there at Irving Clinic, so I called Detective McCabe in Irving and that Wesley was the one that had brought Lee Oswald to work that morning.
Mr. BALL. You took a statement from Frazier that day?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we got Frazier and brought him in and took a written affidavit off of him.
Mr. BALL. And you also talked to Linnie Randle that night?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; I brought her in, too.

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Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Lee Oswald any more during that day except the time you mentioned?
Mr. ROSE. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Were you present at any time that anyone questioned him?
Mr. ROSE. Not that day. I was the next day, on Saturday--I was present when Captain Fritz talked to him.
Mr. BALL. On Saturday morning you went out to Irving again?
Mr. ROSE. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. At this time you had a search warrant?
Mr. ROSE. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. What did you search on this day?
Mr. ROSE. We made a search of the garage, mainly, on this day since quite a bit of Lee Oswald's property was in the garage.
Mr. BALL. What did you find there?
Mr. ROSE. Well, I found two sea bags, three suitcases, and two cardboard boxes and all of them contained numerous items of property of Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Did you find some pictures?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; I found two negatives first that showed Lee Oswald holding a rifle in his hand, wearing a pistol at his hip, and right with those negatives I found a developed picture--I don't know what you call it, but anyway a picture that had been developed from the negative of him holding this rifle, and Detective McCabe was standing there and he found the other picture--of Oswald holding the rifle.
Mr. BALL. What color were the sea bags?
Mr. ROSE. I believe they were kind of an off white--I would call them--more of a greyish-white.
Mr. BALL. What about the suitcases?
Mr. ROSE. I don't remember the color of those suitcases. I know one of them was real worn.
Mr. BALL. But you brought that property back here into town, did you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. Now, you say you sat in on the interrogation of Oswald later that day?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. Now, you say you sat in on the interrogation of Oswald later that day?
Mr. ROSE. On Saturday evening--that Saturday evening.
Mr. BALL. What time?
Mr. ROSE. I don't remember--it was late--it seemed like it was around 9 or 10 o'clock, I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. Who was present?
Mr. ROSE. Well, Captain Fritz, Detective Sims, and myself--I don't remember--there was an FBI agent and a Secret Service agent there, but I don't remember their names.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what was said?
Mr. ROSE. Do I remember what was said?
Mr. BALL. That this took place in Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. ROSE. In Captain Fritz' office--yes. Well, the occasion was--I got back to the office and I took this small picture of Oswald holding the rifle, and left the rest of them with the Captain and I took one up to the I.D. bureau and had them to make me an enlargement of it, and they made an almost 8" by 10" enlargement of this picture and I brought it back to the captain and Oswald was brought in and the captain showed him this picture, and Oswald apparently got pretty upset when he saw the picture and at first he said, "Well, that's just a fake, because somebody has superimposed my face on that picture." Then, the captain said, "Well, is that you face on the picture?" And he said, "I won't even admit that. That is not even my face." I remember that part of it distinctly. I remember him volunteering some information about when he was in Russia.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. ROSE. Well, he talked about how life was better for the colored people in Russia than it was in the United States. I don't remember--he just rambled on--he liked to talk about that, but he wouldn't talk about anything to do with the assassination or the killing of Tippit.

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