Harkness Volume VI
TESTIMONY OF D. V.
HARKNESS
The testimony of D. V.
Harkness was taken at 11:30 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the
Mr. BELIN. Will you
stand and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HARKNESS. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Your name,
sir, would you please state?
Mr. HARKNESS. D. V.
Harkness, Dallas Police Department.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you
live?
Mr. HARKNESS. 2123
Mr. BELIN. Is that in
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What
position do you have with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. HARKNESS. Sergeant
of police.
Mr. BELIN. How long
have you been with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. HARKNESS. Little
over 17 years.
Mr. BELIN. How old are
you, sir?
Mr. HARKNESS.
Forty-two.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go
to school here in
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did
you get through school?
Mr. HARKNESS. High
school.
Mr. BELIN. High school
graduate?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. One year
worked for the East Texas Refining Co.
Mr. BELIN. Then what?
Mr. HARKNESS. Then I
worked for the Baker Hotel in the auditing office.
308
Page 309
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. Went in
the service for 4 years.
Mr. BELIN. Army?
Mr. HARKNESS. Coast
Guard.
Mr. BELIN. What did you
do in the Coast Guard, generally?
Mr. HARKNESS. I was a
boatswain's mate second when I was discharged.
Mr. BELIN. Doing what?
Mr. HARKNESS. Let's
see, I was on the troop transport at the time of my discharge.
Mr. BELIN. Honorable
discharge?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you
Mr. HARKNESS. Come back
and went to work for Alexander Motor Co.
Mr. BELIN. As what?
Mr. HARKNESS. Worked in
the office in the purchasing department.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. Went with
the Dallas Police Department..
Mr. BELIN. Been there
ever since?
Mr. HARKNESS. Ever
since.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on
duty November 22, 1963?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Doing what?
Mr. HARKNESS.
Supervising the traffic officers from Main and Field along the parade route to
Elm and
Mr. BELIN. Where were
you around 12:30 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS. At Main
and
Mr. BELIN. On the east
or west side of
Mr. HARKNESS. West side
of
Mr. BELIN. Did you
watch the motorcade come by?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where were
you when you heard the shots?
Mr.
HARKNESS. I had started west on
Mr. BELIN.
Plaza.
Mr.
HARKNESS. On the plaza area with the crowd to observe the President as he went
west on
Mr. BELIN.
How many shots did you hear?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Three.
Mr. BELIN.
What did you do after you heard those noises? Did you know they were shots, by
the way?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN.
What did you do?
Mr.
HARKNESS. When I saw the first shot and the President's car slow down to almost
a stop----
Mr. BELIN.
When you saw the first shot, what do you mean by that?
Mr.
HARKNESS. When I heard the first shot and saw the President's car almost come to
a stop and some of the agents piling off the car, I went back to the
intersection to get my motorcycle.
Mr. BELIN.
You were in the process of doing that when you heard the second and third shots?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN.
Where did the shots sound like they came from?
Mr.
HARKNESS. I couldn't tell. They were bouncing off the buildings down there. I
couldn't tell.
Mr. BELIN.
You mean the reverberations?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN.
Then what did you do
Mr.
HARKNESS. I went west on
Mr. BELIN.
Why did you go down there?
Mr.
HARKNESS. By the way the people, when I went into this area, everybody
309
Page 310
was hitting
the ground, and someone led us to indicate that the shots were coming into the
cars.
Mr. BELIN.
You mean from some point in front of the cars?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN.
Do you know who that someone was?
Mr.
HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN.
What did that person do that indicated that?
Mr.
HARKNESS. I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN.
Then what did you
Mr.
HARKNESS. I went down to Industrial to see if I could see anyone fleeing that
area.
Mr. BELIN. What did you
see?
Mr. HARKNESS. I didn't
see anyone, so I come back to the front of the Book Depository and went around
to this fence that was across the street from
Mr. BELIN. What do you
mean across the street from
Mr. HARKNESS. Again, I
will have to--near the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN. Behind the
building?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir;
this area right here. See,
Mr. BELIN. What you are
really saying---
Mr. HARKNESS. This
area.
Mr. BELIN. You are
pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go
down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes; to
the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN. The plaza
area?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you
find there?
Mr. HARKNESS. I found a
little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that
building.
Mr. BELIN. Now you just
picked out a little small book, one of those little pocket notebooks?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Or a notepad
from your pocket here. Is that the original notation that you made?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When did you
make that notation?
Mr. HARKNESS.
Immediately after the shooting.
Mr. BELIN. Is that your
own record that you have kept in your possession since then?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
I turned
Mr. BELIN. You turned
what?
Mr.
HARKNESS. After I took his name and address and put this information on the
radio, I then took him on the back of my three-wheel motorcycle and put him in
Inspector Sawyer's car.
Mr. BELIN.
Now you mentioned that you put something on the radio here, and I hand you here
what has been marked as Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A. Before doing that, do you
remember what call number you used, you were using on that day?
Mr.
HARKNESS. I believe 260.
Mr.
BELIN. Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m.,
260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr.
HARKNESS. "Witness says shots came from fifth floor,
Mr.
BELIN. All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr.
BELIN. Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I
don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
310
Page 311
Mr. BELIN. In the
process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. Asked for
a squad.
Mr. BELIN. How long did
it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS. The guard
was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional
squads en route.
Mr. BELIN. How soon
after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS. It was
sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN. You are
talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What about
the front part of the building? When was that sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS. Inspector
Sawyer and two officers were there.
Mr. BELIN. By the time
you got around to the front part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir;
by the time I put the witness in his car, I went immediately to the back.
Mr. BELIN. In other
words, as I understand the sequence, you first went to the back of the building
and had that sealed off first, or not?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You tell me
what happened then.
Mr. HARKNESS. I had
this witness with me. I didn't want to lose this witness.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. HARKNESS. So I took
him to the car.
Mr. BELIN. To Inspector
Sawyer's car?
Mr. HARKNESS. To
Inspector Sawyer's car, which was right in front.
Mr. BELIN. Which was
parked in front of the
Mr. HARKNESS. And left
the witness there and went around to the back.
Mr. BELIN. On whose
radio did you call? Did you call in before or after you left the witness in the
car?
Mr. HARKNESS. I don't
remember in exact sequence there, but it was in the process of going to the car
there.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. See, here
is the thing. The radio traffic was heavy at the time, and it depended on how
long you had to wait to get in.
Mr. BELIN. All right,
in any event, after you made the call, what did you do on the radio? And after
you got the man in the car?
Mr. HARKNESS. Well---
Mr. BELIN. The witness
in the car, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. Stayed at
the back of the building until I was relieved by a squad.
Mr. BELIN. So you then
went to the back of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. When you
were at Inspector Sawyer's car, did you see him there?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was he at
his car?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir;
he was by his car, near his car.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know
whether or not he had gone inside the building.
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You mean you
don't know?
Mr.
HARKNESS. Don't know whether he had gone in or not. Actually, he was standing
there in front taking information. All the information was being funneled to
Inspector Sawyer.
Mr. BELIN. Did you tell
him you had a witness?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. In his car?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
311
731-222 O--64---vol. VI
21
Page 312
Mr. BELIN. At that
time, had the building been sealed off yet when you told him that?
Mr. HARKNESS. At that
time?
Mr. BELIN. When you
told Inspector Sawyer that you had a witness that said the shot came from the
building, up to that particular moment, had the front part of the building been
sealed off yet?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. It had
already been sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS. There
.was two officers with Inspector Sawyer at the front.
Mr. BELIN. Were they
stopping people from going in and out?
Mr. HARKNESS. I don't
know.
Mr. BELIN. You don't
know?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir;
I don't know that, because I didn't go up and talk to them.
Mr. BELIN. Did you
notice whether or not people were coming in and out of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. No. I was
interested in getting around to the back of the building to make sure it was.
Mr. BELIN. Then am I
correct that your testimony is that you didn't notice whether people were coming
in and out? Did you notice, or did you not notice whether people were coming out
of the building at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS. Several
officers at the area, and it was a lot of people around. I don't know whether
they were going in or out or not. I couldn't say that.
Mr. BELIN. Then you
went around to the back of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN.
Was anyone around in the back when you got there?
Mr.
HARKNESS. There were some Secret Service agents there. I didn't get them
identified. They told me they were Secret Service.
Mr. BELIN.
Then did you stay around the back of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes; I
stayed at the back until the squad got there.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. I went
back to the front, and Inspector Sawyer---helped get the crowd back first, and
then Inspector Sawyer assigned me to some freight cars that were leaving out of
the yard, to go down and search all freight cars that were leaving the yard.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. Well, we
got a long freight that was in there, and we pulled some people off of there and
took them to the station.
Mr. BELIN. You mean
some transients?
Mr. HARKNESS. Tramps
and hoboes.
Mr. BELIN. That were on
the freight car?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS. That was
all my assignment, because they shook two long freights down that were leaving,
to my knowledge, in all the area there.
We had several officers
working in that area.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know
whether or not anyone found any suspicious people of any kind or nature down
there in the railroad yard
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
We made some arrests, I put some people in.
Mr. BELIN. Were these
what you call hoboes or tramps?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were all
those questioned?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir;
they were taken to the station and questioned.
Mr. BELIN. Any guns of
any kind found?
Mr. HARKNESS'. Not to
my knowledge.
Mr. BELIN. I want to go
back to this Amos Euins. Do you remember what he said to you and what you said
to him when you first saw him?
Mr. HARKNESS. I went in
that crowd up there near the area there, and asked did anyone see any place
where the shots come from, and there was an unidentified person pointed to him,
said this boy here saw it, saw the shots, where the shots came from, and he told
me it was.
Mr. BELIN. Then what
did he say?
312
Page 313
Mr. HARKNESS. He told
me that the shots came from the window under the ledge.
Mr. BELIN. Of what
building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Of the
School Book Depository.
Mr. BELIN. Now have you
since gone back to that building?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know
where the ledge is?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir;
let's see, I have been by the place a million times. The ledge there is the one
window where it came from, I believe.
Mr. BELIN. You can't
right now definitely state what floor the ledge would be?
Mr. HARKNESS. Well---
Mr. BELIN. If you
can't, I would rather not have you guess, but if you do know, I would like to
have you state.
Mr. HARKNESS. I believe
that it---
Mr. BELIN. Sergeant,
now, do you know where that ledge is now?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Between what
floors is the ledge?
Mr. HARKNESS. The ledge
is between, over the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. All right,
well here in your police report I show you Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, you said
the, "Witness says shots came from fifth floor Texas School Book Depository."
Did the witness say it was from the sixth floor, or did he say' it was from the
fifth floor?
Mr. HARKNESS. He said
it was from the fifth floor.
Mr. BELIN. What were
the exact words of the witness?
Mr. HARKNESS. The exact
words of the witness "It was under the ledge," which would put it on the sixth
floor. It was my error in a hasty count of the floors.
Mr. BELIN. Did the
witness say what particular window on that floor that he saw it on? On the floor
under the ledge?
Mr. HARKNESS. Said it
was the last window, which would indicate it would be the last window on the
east side of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say
to his right as he saw it, or did he just say the last window from where he was
standing?
Mr. HARKNESS. Last
window from where he was standing, and at that point it would indicate that it
would be the last window on the east side of the building facing
Mr. BELIN. Were you
standing at the time, on the north or south side of Elm when you talked to this
witness?
Mr. HARKNESS. I was.
Mr. BELIN. When you
were with this witness, had this Amos Euins, were you standing on the north or
the south side of Elm as it goes into the Parkway there?
Mr. HARKNESS. Elm as it
goes under the Parkway--was between Elm where it goes under the triple
underpass, and the extension of Elm there in that park area.
Mr. BELIN. So that is
where you were standing?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. So that
would be north of Elm as it goes into the underpass, but south of the extension
of Elm ?
Mr. HARKNESS. Where
that building is, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Would you
have been west of the
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. So the
witness pointed to the last one on that floor? That would be the last one which
would be to the east, is that correct?
Mr. HARKNESS. That's
correct.
Mr. BELIN. Anything
else you can remember this witness said?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say
whether or not he saw a rifle?
Mr. HARKNESS. He
couldn't tell.
313
Page 314
Mr. BELIN. Sergeant, do
you remember anything else that you said?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you
actually talk to any other person whose name you recorded in your little book
there?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir;
Mr. BELIN.
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did he
say?
Mr. HARKNESS. He said
that he saw a man on one of those floors. He didn't clearly identify it, as he
saw a man with a high-powered rifle walking around up there.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say
anything else that you could have recorded there?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Anything
else you remember?
Mr. HARKNESS. Except
his address. I have his address as 3026 Hammerly.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say
anything else?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Is there
anything else that happened that day that might in any way be relevant to this
investigation?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you
do on Saturday?
Mr. HARKNESS. Saturday
I was assigned to traffic at Elm and Houston, between Elm and
Mr. BELIN. Is there
anything else that you did on Saturday or on Sunday that might in any way be
relevant to this area of inquiry?
Mr. HARKNESS. On
Saturday had a large crowd down there, and I observed Jack Ruby at the entrance
of the jail down there on Saturday.
Mr. BELIN. You saw Jack
Ruby near the entrance of the jail on Saturday?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Has your
statement already been taken by anyone before on the President's Commission?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. But you did
see Jack Ruby?
Mr. HARKNESS. I
testified in Ruby's trial to that effect.
Mr. BELIN. Anyone else
or anything else that might be in any way relevant here?
Mr. HARKNESS. The only
thing, on Sunday I was leaving town; going to Whitesboro, and my wife and kids,
we heard over the radio that Oswald had been shot.
When I arrived in
Whitesboro, I called Capt. Fritz of the Dallas Police Department, and told him
that I had seen Ruby near the entrance of the county jail the day before, which
was a Saturday.
Mr. BELIN. Anything
else?
Mr. HARKNESS. That is
all.
Mr. BELIN. But did you
ever talk to Ruby at any time afterwards?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir:
not afterwards.
Mr. BELIN. Did you know
Ruby at all, or not?
Mr. HARKNESS. I had met
him, and being downtown traffic sergeant, I had seen him before, and I knew who
he was, but other than that, that is all.
Mr. BELIN. Is there any
other thing you can think of, whether I have asked it or not, that might in any
way be relevant to the investigation of the assassination or the shooting of
Officer Tippit?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir;
I don't have anything on that, other than what I heard over the radio.
Mr. BELIN. By the way,
did your witness ever say whether the person he saw at the window was a white
man or Negro?
Mr. HARKNESS. He just
told me, he just said he couldn't identify him. That is what he told me.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell
you whether or not it was a man?
Mr. HARKNESS. I don't
remember, because I knew I couldn't get any information out of him, enough to
put out a description on it.
Mr. BELIN. Anything
else?
314
Page 315
Mr. HARKNESS. No, Sir.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, we want
to thank you very much for coming down here and testifying.
You have an
opportunity, if you would like, to come back and read your deposition when it is
typed, and sign it, or you can waive reading and signing it and just have the
court reporter send the transcript to us directly in Washington. If you have any
preference, you might let us know.
Mr. HARKNESS. l have no
preference. I just hope I have been able to help you on these directions,
because they are complicated to give directions, especially when you try to
convince.
Mr. BELIN. In any
event, do you want to sign or waive signing? You have a right to sign or you can
waive the signing of it and send it directly to us, whatever you want to do.
Mr. HARKNESS. Waiver is
customary? It doesn't make any difference.
Mr. BELIN. Some people
do one way and some the other way. Do you want to come back and read it and sign
it, or do you want to waive signing it and let the court reporter send us the
transcript direct?
Mr. HARKNESS. What has
most of them been doing?
Mr. BELIN. Gosh, I have
them doing both ways. I couldn't tell you what most have been doing, sir.
Mr. HARKNESS. I will
just waive.
Contact Information tomnln@cox.net
Page Visited
Times