TESTIMONY OF POLICE OFFICER H. B. McLAIN, DALLAS

POLICE DEPARTMENT, DALLAS , TEX.

              Mr. CORNWELL.. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

              Mr. McLain, what is your present occupation?

              Mr. McLAIN. Police officer, city of Dallas .

              Mr. CORNWELL. How long have you been so employed?

              Mr. McLAIN. I am working on my 26th year.

              Mr. CORNWELL. What is the nature of your present assignment

          with the Dallas Police Department?

              Mr. McLAIN. At the present, an accident investigator.

              Chairman STOKES. Would the witness please pull the microphone a little closer to him?

              Mr. CORNWELL. Directing your attention to 1963, what was the nature of your assignment during that year?

              Mr. McLAIN. I was assigned to ride a solo motorcycle.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And how long had you been riding a solo motorcycle?

              Mr. McLAIN. Approximately 8 years.

              Mr. CORNWELL. If I could direct your attention to November 22, 1963, the day that President Kennedy came to Dallas , were you part of the motorcade escort for the motorcade on that day?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, may I have marked and admitted as JFK exhibit F-679, a memorandum of the Dallas Police Department, dated November 21, 1963?

              Chairman STOKES. Without objection.

              [The information follows:]

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              Mr. CORNWELL. Officer McLain, the exhibit which we just marked for identification and which I showed you last night reflects that there were five motorcycles assigned to ride as the lead in the motorcade in front of Chief Curry's car, and then there were four motorcycles initially contemplated on November 21, the day before the motorcade, to escort the President's car on the left rear side, and another four motorcycles on the right rear side.

              Would it be consistent with your memory that those initial plans were altered somewhat on the actual day of the motorcade, and that in fact only two motorcycles flanked the President's car on the left and right in close proximity to it?  

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir; that's the way it was.

              Mr. CORNWELL. In the initial plan for the escort dated the day before, you were listed as being assigned to ride the left side of the President's car. We have reviewed film coverage of the motorcade, and I would ask you if it would be consistent with your memory that you rode several car lengths back, but still on the left side of the motorcade from the President's car?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir; I rode in the general vicinity of Vice President Johnson's car.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you happen to recall who would have been riding to your rear on the same side of the motorcade?

              Mr. McLAIN. I believe that was COurson.

              Mr. CORNWELL. That is Officer J.W. Courson?

              Mr. MCLAIN. J.W., yes.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you happen to recall who would be riding in approximately the same position as you on the right side of the motorcade?

              Mr. McLAIN. That would be M.L. Baker.

              Mr. CORNWELL. As the motorcade progressed from Love Field through downtown and ultimately into Dealey Plaza, would the positions, say, of yourself and the other motorcycles have been constant with respect to any particular car or, on the other hand, would it have fluctuated within the general area of the motorcade?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, it would vary from, say, the Vice President's car back to the bus, some four or five car-lengths, I would say.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Let me ask you another question: The motorcade would also--the spacing of it, would that be constant, or would that have varied?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, that varies, too. Generally, it is pretty close to the same, but on turns and stuff they'll jam up and then they'll spread out.

              Mr. CORNWELL. OK. So both the motorcycles and the motorcade would slow up and jam up at turns, and then speed up and spread out a little bit during the stretch areas; is that correct? Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Now I would like to show you, if I might, Mr. Chairman, and have marked as exhibits and admitted as exhibits No.'s JFK F-668, F-669, F-670 and F-671, which are photographs of various parts of the motorcade. May we have those admitted as exhibits?

              Chairman STOKES. Without objection, they may be entered into the record.

              [The information follows:]

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              Mr. CORNWELL. And simply because the clarity might be we have a consolidation of those in a smaller scale, which has marked for identification as exhibit F-681. May we also have admitted into the record?

              Chairman STOKES. Without objection, it may be entered into record.

              [The information follows:]

JFK EXHIBIT F-681

              Mr. CORNWELL. I might explain that each of these large 30 inch blowups were taken from a single frame of a motion picture.  You have, of course, had an opportunity to review such motion pictures yesterday; is that correct, Officer? 

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. The first exhibit, JFK F-668, on the left, reflects the motorcade from its left side. There is an officer a short distance ahead of the cameraman, a number of cars, and then further down the motorcade, also on the left side, two motorcycles.

              Do you recognize the street that that was taken on?

              Mr. McLAIN. That looks like it was taken on Houston .

              Mr. CORNWELL. Approaching Houston ?

              Mr. McLAIN. No; on Main Street , approaching Houston :

              Mr. CORNWELL. So then, Houston Street would be where buildings break apart and you see a lot of sky toward the end the street; is that correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

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              Mr. CORNWELL. Where Houston crosses Main ?

              Mr. McLAIN. The tree that you see there will be on the opposite side of Houston .

              Mr. CORNWELL. In Dealey Plaza ?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. You will turn between the tree and the building on Houston .

              Mr. CORNWELL. Can you tell us whether or not the motorcycle officer in the foreground of that picture--the one closest to the cameraman--was you?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Then directing your attention to the next exhibit, F-669, would it be fair to state that that is a photograph taken down Houston Street from approximately the location of the intersection of Main and Houston, looking toward the Texas School Book Depository?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. 

              Mr. CORNWELL. I might state for the record, Mr. Chairman, that in frames just prior to the ones which have been blown up here, it is clear that the cars at the extreme portion of the photograph, away from the photographer, consist of the Presidential limousine, flanked by two motorcycles, and the Secret Service followup car; but you can still see with some clarity in the photograph the Secret Service followup car and the two motorcycles. In other words, the Presidential limousine is right at the corner and turning from Houston onto Elm, and from the School Book Depository.

              The next two photographs have been placed on the easels out of sequence. May we have those altered just so that they could be viewed with more clarity?

          The last two--we need to just switch their location.

              Exhibit F-670 would be several frames after exhibit F-669, also looking down Houston Street , showing essentially the same portion of the motorcade.

              And then the following exhibit, F-671, would be, again, a few frames later.

              When viewing the entire film intact, you can then see that within a matter of seconds after the Presidential limousine turns in front of the depository, a police officer riding a motorcycle enters right in front of the photographer--and that is exhibit 671--right onto Houston Street from Main .

          Can you tell us, Officer McLain, would that have been you?

              Mr. MCLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you have a memory of hearing any shots while you were in Dealey Plaza ?

              Mr. McLAIN. I only remember hearing one.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And approximately where were you when you heard that shot?

              Mr. McLAIN. I was approximately halfway between Main and Elm Streets on Houston .

              Mr. CORNWELL. So you would have heard it sometime after the picture was taken in exhibit F-671, the last one on the right?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And before you got to the corner and turned the corner from Houston onto Elm; is that correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. That's correct.

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              Mr. CORNWELL. When you  heard the shot, what, if anything, did you look at or what did you do?

              Mr. McLAIN. I Just looked up the street and the only thing was a bunch of pigeons flew out behind the school book depository.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So you heard the shot, your memory was, looking up, seeing the school book depository in front of you, and the pigeons fly off?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. After you heard this shot, would it be accurate to state that you continued on motorbike, made the corner from Houston onto Elm, and started down Elm Street ?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. 

              Mr. CORNWELL. At some point thereafter did you hear anything with respect to what was going on? Did you hear any radio broadcast?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. The chief came on across the radio and said head back for Parkland Hospital .

              Mr. CORNWELL. Now had you personally had any occasion on that day, to your memory, to use your radio, to talk through it?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you have a distinct memory of what channel your radio was set on?

              Mr. McLAIN. It's normally set on channel 1.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And do you remember anything differently on that day?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. The answer is no?

              Mr. McLAIN. Nope.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Then it would be fair to state that since you neither have a distinct memory nor, in fact, recall using your radio, we simply can't determine from your memory which of the two channels your radio may have been on at the time of the motorcade; correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. That's correct.                          

              I would like to ask you next, what happened after you heard the broadcast from Chief Curry about proceeding to Parkland Memorial Hospital ?

              Mr. McLAIN. Well, everybody broke and headed for the hospital.

              Mr. CORNWELL. At the time that this occurred, you said "proceeding." I take it that means that you revved your engine up and  started up at high speed to go toward the hospital? 

    Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you have a memory of where the Presidential or Vice Presidential limousines were roughly at the time that you caught up with them after hearing Chief Curry's radio signal?

              Mr. McLAIN. They were approximately--well, in front of what is now, where they have the Hyatt House, would be the overpass over Continental.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So, in other words, although you speeded up your motorcycle and attempted to catch up to the Presidential and Vice Presidential limousines, it took you until some point up on Stemmons Freeway before you could catch them; is that right?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

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              Mr. CORNWELL. The motorcycles that were in use in Dallas by the police department at that time, were they in any way unique? Can you identify one from another?

              Mr. McLAIN. Well, some of them you can; some of the officers put their own personal stuff on them that would be different from other people's; some of them would mount them different.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So you could both tell by the way they rode them and by sometimes distinct characteristics of the motorcycles, who owned them?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Did your motorcycle have any unique characteristics?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir; it did. For one thing, it had a chrome disk on the right side of the front wheel.

              Mr. CORNWELL. As I looked at some of the pictures with you last night, it appeared that you could see a chrome breakdrum from the left side on all the motorcycles, correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. But the unique feature was on yours it had a similar appearing chrome disk when viewed from the right?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Were there any other unique characteristics of yours?

              Mr. McLAIN. Well, one thing, my flashlight holder was set up different from the rest of them.

              Mr. CORNWELL. How was it mounted?

              Mr. McLAIN. It was mounted crossways of the handlebars, instead of up and down.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Anything else?

              Mr. McLAIN. I also had two clip holders up on the windshield that I kept my paperwork in.

              Mr. CORNWELL. All right. Where was your microphone mounted?

              Mr. McLAIN. It was mounted onto the left, between the center and the left handlebar.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Now, you had an opportunity to view a very large number of photographs taken both during the motorcade and in Parkland Hospital yesterday evening; is that correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, if I might, I would like to have admitted into the record exhibits F-675, F-674, F-676, F-677, and F-678, and ask, if I might, that they be shown to the witness.

              Chairman STOKES. Without objection, they may be so marked and shown to the witness.

              [The information follows:]

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              Mr. CORNWELL. Did you choose those photographs as both representing in the first instance, in F-675, yourself riding down Elm Street--the  number is on the back, incidentally--and in the other cases as representing a motorcycle at the hospital, which at least had the general physical characteristics of yours, particularly unique characteristics that you described?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. Here is one here with the clip holders on the wind shield, and it's got the same kind of bag that I had on mine, that I carry my books and stuff in.

              Chairman STOKES. Will you tell us the number on the back of them?

              Can you give us the number?

              Mr. McLAIN. It's F-674.

              Chairman SToKEs. Thank you.                          

              Mr McLAIN. And F-676, you can see the little chrome disc on the right front wheel sittin out behind the emergency room; and  position, behind the emergency room; F-678 also shows a little closer view of it, sitting in the same position, behind the emergency room; 677 shows the general view of the crowd and the other cars that are parked out there, and the "No Parking" sign; and the bus is also shown on F-674.

              Mr. CoRNWELL. And with respect to F-675, did you identify that as representing you and another officer on Elm Street ?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes; that's myself and Sergeant Courson. Well, he is now sergeant; he was J.W. Courson at the time.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So that last picture we just described, F-675, you identified as appearing to you to represent yourself and Officer Courson, and Courson was at an earlier point in the motorcade, riding behind you, also on the lefthand side?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Now, was it possible while riding in the motorcade for you to hear the broadcast from the speaker of a fellow officer who, for instance, was riding on the opposite side of the motorcade from you?

              Mr. McLAIN. If he had his radio turned up, yes.

              Mr. CORNWELL. All right. Looking again at F-675, that shows you and Officer Courson on Elm Street in approximately the vicinity of the grassy knoll, riding somewhat side by side. At that distance, would it have been possible for you to hear the speaker of Officer Courson's radio if it was broadcasting?

              Mr. McLAIN. Very possible.                                

              Mr. CORNWELL. And at the point in time that you heard Chief Curry state that he was going to Parkland Hospital, would it have then been possible that what you heard was the transmission from the speaker of Officer Courson and not in fact your own?

              Mr. McLAIN. It could be possible.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest that at least temporarily the committee may wish to consider the photographs, particularly F-674, F-676, F-677, and F-678, before the Parkland Hospital, for a very limited purpose. They do, as the officer has described, apparently contain the characteristics which were relatively unique to his motorcycle.

              And, incidentally, I might clarify, you did park your motorcycle at the Parkland Hospital after arriving there with the motorcade; is that correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

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              Mr. CORNWELL. However, Mr. Chairman, the staff has not yet had an opportunity to check the number which we can see in one of the photographs with perhaps available-- I don't know if they even are available--records of the Dallas Police Department.  The records that we do have reflect Officer McLain's call number, which he used in transmitting, but we do not have records that we have yet been able to locate showing what his bike number was, and until we have had an opportunity to check that out, we might tentatively say we are not sure that those pictures do in fact represent Officer McLain's motorcycle at Parkland Hospital; but at least they represent the characteristics of it, and we might suggest that the committee may wish to consider them only for that limited purpose.

              Second, Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest to you that in one of the photographs taken at Parkland Hospital it can be interpreted as having the microphone button--or at least it can to novices such as your staff--can possibly be interpreted as having its button pushed to the left. However, we have not had any photographic expertise applied to that, and the distortion in the picture, or the angle from which it was taken, may lead us to an erroneous conclusion, so we would again---

              Chairman STOKES. Is the witness able to offer any assistance on that?

              Mr. CORNWELL. Well, I believe, Officer, you do have a memory of which direction you believe would be channel 1 and channel 2 on the switch; is that correct?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And what is that?

              Mr. McLAIN. Channel 1 would be to the left; channel 2 would be to the right.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So, Mr. Chairman, if our view of it were proven to be correct, if it is in fact tilted to the left, it would be on channel 1. On the other hand, if the angle from which it was taken distorts that, then it would be the opposite, on channel 2.

              Another reason I would like to suggest we might be cautious in evaluating that is that the significance of it may not be overly great.

              Chairman STOKES. You have not been moving for admission of these exhibits into the record?

              Mr. CORNWELL. I am simply suggesting the committee may wish to consider them for a limited purpose until we have had time to do further analysis on them, namely, being representations of the type of motorcycle that Officer McLain drove and possibly being identical with his.

              Officer McLain, are you able to tell us with any certainty which channel your motorcycle was set to during that motorcade?

              Mr. McLAIN. I don't know for sure which way it was set.

              Mr. CORNWELL. And are you also able to tell us whether or not it may have been changed, whatever it was initially set to, at some point, either during the motorcade or after arriving at Parkland Hospital ?

              Mr. McLAIN. It could have been.

              Mr. CORNWELL. So then, Mr. Chairman, again we might simply note that whatever the ultimate photographic interpretation is of

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the way that button is set, it may not be determinative, because it could have been changed at some point prior to the time the photograph was taken.

              Did you, to your memory, have a stuck microphone on that day?

              Mr. McLAIN. Not that I know of.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Do you know whether or not it would have been possible for your microphone to have been stuck in the open position without your knowledge?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir; it has been before.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Under how many different circumstances in your particular case?

              Mr. McLAIN. I'm scared to say.

              Mr. CORNWELL. We have been told--and I want to ask you if this is at all consistent with your experience--that it is possible that in fact some gasket material in the mike, if it were worn or old, might cause the button once depressed not to return to its open position. Do you know whether that is possible?

              Mr. McLAIN. That's possible. It is also possible that the points in that relay in there will stick when you push it in.

              Mr. CORNWELL. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

              Chairman STOKES. Let me ask counsel if counsel was able to establish the chain of evidence as it relates to the tape from the witness' motorcycle?

              Mr. BLAKEY. Mr. Chairman, as I am sure you will recall--and it is appropriate to repeat it at this time, since those who may be watching our hearings to date will not recall--that in September we introduced the police officer from whom the tape was obtained. I might summarize for the record what his testimony was:

              He was--and I think his name is Paul McCaghren--he was an officer in the Dallas Police Department, and he had custody of a large number of records relating to the Kennedy assassination, and he retained that custody in a large trunk, and when the material was turned over to one of our investigators, Jack Moriarty, it was taken from that same trunk.

              I might also indicate that an effort was made to match the transcript that we have of channels 1 and 2 to the material appearing on both the Dictabelt and the tape belt that we have. Consequently, the authenticity of the tape appears to be adequate, appears to have been adequately established.

              Chairman STOKES. But for purposes of my question, in terms of the chain of evidence, we have no record or testimony that transfers back to the motorcycle of the witness appearing in this room?

              Mr. BLAKEY. The tape was taken at the police department of a radio transmission from the bike to the police department, and the tapes were kept at the central office of the police department.

              The recorder that the officer had was a radio transmitter and not a recorder on his bike.

              Mr. DODD. Mr. Chairman, would you yield at that point?

              Chairman STOKES. I yield to the gentleman.

              Mr. DODD. Just to pursue this line of questioning, for instance, was any effort made by the staff to compare the brand of the tape disc--and I am led to believe it was--with the type of disc's that the Dallas Police Department were using at that time?

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              Mr. BLAKEY. The Dallas Police Department at that time were recording--again, my memory is going to correct me if I am wrong--were not recording on tape; they were recording on Dictabelt.

              Mr. DODD. That is what I mean, a Dictabelt.                  

              Mr. BLAKEY. And the Dictabelt that was found among this material is the same kind of Dictabelt that the Dallas Police Department was using at that time.

              Mr. DODD. Second, were there any other transmissions on the tape that would correspond to activity that would have lodged in' the Dallas Police Department that day?                      

              Mr. BLAKEY. Oh, yes, that is what I tried to indicate before, Dodd. What appears on the Dictabelt and the tape recording of the Dictabelt are indeed the same sounds, the same information that we have based on the transcripts that we had of channel 1 and channel 2 that go back to 1963-64.

              Mr. DODD. Was any effort made to identify other voices on the tape, to confirm that?

              Mr. BLAKEY. No.

              I'm sorry. Mr. Cornwell, you wanted to add something?

              Mr. CORNWELL. The transmissions on the tapes do correspond with the Warren Commission testimony of various officers who described doing certain things and then reporting it over the radio, and therefore there is substantial corroboration of that nature, that the kinds of transmissions we have on these tapes were of the events that were actually happening on November 22.

              Mr. DODD. Thank you.

              Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for yielding.

              Chairman STOKES. Certainly.

              Are there other members of the committee seeking recognition?

              Mr. DEVINE. Mr. Chairman, I have a question, if I may.

              Chairman STOKES. The gentleman from Ohio , Mr. Devine.

              Mr. DEVINE. Officer McLain, when your microphone is open, inadvertently even, are you able to receive broadcasts?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. DEVINE. That would preclude anyone from broadcasting into your receiver, is that right?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. DEVINE. Then the message you heard about going to Parkland Hospital , you say it is possible you heard that from the other motorbike?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir. It is also possible that Chief Curry put it out on both channels at the same time.

              Mr. DEVINE. If your mike was open, would that receive it on the other channel?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir; I would not hear that.

              Mr. DEVINE. What kind of a bike were you riding, a Harley Davidson?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. DEVINE. A 'Harley Davidson. Do you recall during the time you were in the motorcade of monitoring any broadcasts from headquarters or other officers on your receiver?

              Mr. McLAIN. Not offhand, but quite often we do do that.

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              Mr. DEVINE. But if your mike was locked open, you couldn't, could you?

              Mr. McLAIN. No.

              Chairman STOKES. Mr. Edgar?

              Mr. EDGAR. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Officer, in riding in a parade situation, where you are doing not only ceremonial duty but protective responsibilities, would it have been common for you not to have wanted to listen to the commands of the chief or other officers along the route?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir. We need to listen to them to know in case something does happen what alternative route to take.

              Mr. EDGAR. While you were riding along, let's just suppose for a moment that your switch was not on transmit, but was on receive, listening to what you would normally listen to over that radio, wouldn't you hear static?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, not necessarily.

              Mr. EDGAR. Not necessarily. So that you were riding your motorcycle and you would not necessarily be aware whether or not you were on receive or transmit?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir. It would be dead to you. The radio would be dead to you. You would not hear anything.

              Mr. EDGAR. Whether or not you were transmitting or receiving? What I am saying is that suppose you were receiving but no one was talking; OK, you are receiving from the chief of the Dallas Police Department. If you were on receive, you would hear that sound, you would hear his voice.

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. EDGAR. Suppose he is not talking, and no one else is talking, but your radio is still on receive. Are you indicating that there would be no sound at all?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir, there would be no sound. There is a knob on the control up there that you can turn your squelch up or down.  If you turn it off, then it makes no sound.

              Mr. EDGAR. Thank you.

             Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Fithian.

              Mr. FITHIAN. Mr. Chairman, I must clarify one thing here. Officer, you said that as far as your memory is concerned, you only heard one shot?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir, that is all that I can recall. It was a loud one but that was the only one.

              Mr. FITHIAN. You were on Houston Street at that time?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir, somewhere between Main and Elm Street .

              Mr. FITHIAN. Then it is your testimony that after you turned on Elm Street , you heard no further shots? Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. FITHIAN. Did you see anything in the area of the grassy knoll up and to the right which would be of any interest to this committee?

              Mr. McLAIN. I did see Officer Hargis going up the grassy knoll.

              Mr. FITHIAN. Going up the grassy knoll toward the fence, toward the clearing?

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes, sir.

              Mr. FITHIAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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              Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired.

              The gentleman from Connecticut , Mr. Dodd.

              Mr. DODD. I just wanted to get clarification on these photographs and your identification. In the first photograph here on the left, you identified the motorcycle closest to us in the picture as being your motorcycle, and you are on it.  How do you identify yourself there?

              Mr. MCLAIN. The way I am sitting on it. Just the way I ride it.

              Mr. DODD. When was the last time you saw yourself sitting on a motorcycle?

              Mr. McLAIN. It has been a while.

              Mr. DODD. But is there anything that distinguishes you or the bike, itself, that you are able to identify?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. FAUNTROY. Will the gentleman yield? How do you ride it?  I mean when you say by the way you ride, do you ride off to the side? What is it about the picture that distinguishes you? 

              Mr. McLAIN. I don't know how to explain that. It's just the way I am sitting on it.

              Mr. FAUNTROY. Look at the last picture, if the gentleman will continue to yield, how do you know that is you?

              Mr. McLAIN. Just the way that I am sitting.

              Mr. FAUNTROY. I wonder if you would care to describe how you are sitting?

              Mr. McLAIN. It just comes natural to you.

              Mr. DODD. As only it should, I think.

              You don't identify any other mark on that last photograph as being yourself, either, on the motorcycle?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir, I can't tell. 

              Mr. DODD. Let me ask you this: I had asked the acoustical people earlier, you may have heard the question with regard to the ability for a receiver at the police department to accept transmittals from two or more motorcycles or transmitters at the same time. Is that your understanding as well?  In other words if you were in the Dallas Police Department receiving calls, if one person were on that channel transmitting, would it be possible for other people to transmit on that same channel at the same time be received by the headquarters?     

              Mr. McLAIN. Yes.                                

              Mr. DODD. That would accept on the same channel more one transmittal?

              Mr. McLAIN. It would be hard to determine what they were saying because they would be overlapping, but the voice would come through. A lot of times we have the dispatcher come and say there is too man of ou talking at one time. 

              Mr DODD. Were you ever familiar with any carillon bells or church bells in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza ? 

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.                                   

              Mr. DODD. Has there ever been, to your knowledge, any kind of sound or noise?

              Mr. McLAIN. No, sir.

              Mr. DODD. I thank you.

              Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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          Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired. Are

there any other members seeking recognition?

          Mr. Cornwell?

          Mr. CORNWELL. If I might, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a clarifying question with respect to one which one of the committee members just asked. Officer McLain, when you were asked by the committee a moment ago about how you identify yourself in those two photographs, directing your attention first to the last photograph, F-668, would it be fair to state that the motorcycle you identified as yourself is the first one behind the two that were right next to the Presidential limousine?

          Mr. MCLAIN. Yes, sir.

          Mr. CORNWELL. And was that the position in which you were

riding in the motorcade?

          Mr. MCLAIN. Yes, sir.

           Mr. CORNWELL. Then I direct your attention to JFK F-671 on the right, when you entered Dealey Plaza from Main onto Houston Street, did you look up ahead to see where the Presidential and Vice Presidential limousines were?

          Mr. MCLAIN. Yes, sir.

          Mr. CORNWELL. What did you see?

          Mr. McLAIN. They were just turning the corner onto Elm Street as I came around the corner off Main Street .

           Mr. CORNWELL. So if the photographs here show that the officer in the photograph enters Houston Street from Main at the time the Presidential limousine is turning from Main onto Elm, that again would be you, because of the position in the motorcade?

          Mr. MCLAIN. Yes, sir.

          Mr. CORNWELL. Thank you. No further questions.

          Chairman STOKES. Officer McLain, at the conclusion of the witnesses testimony before this committee, the witness is entitled to 5 minutes. During the 5-minute period he can explain or amplify or in any way comment in any way upon his testimony before this committee. I would extend to you 5 minutes for that purpose if you so desire.

          Mr. McLAIN. No, sir, I believe he pretty well covered most of it.  

          Chairman STOKES. On behalf of the committee we certainly want to  thank you for both your cooperation with the staff and with this committee and for the testimony you have given us here today. Thank you very much. You are excused.

          In light of the fact that there are several additional witnesses to be heard from by the committee, the Chair suggests that we recess for lunch until 2:30 p.m., and we will begin promptly at that time. Accordingly, we will recess until 2:30 p.m.

          [Whereupon, at 1:36 p.m., the committee recessed until 2:30 p.m.]