J M POE Volume VII

J M Poe

J M POE

TESTIMONY OF J. M. POE

The testimony of J. M. Poe was taken at 10:30 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Would you stand and be sworn, please.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. POE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. State your name.

Mr. POE. J. M. Poe [spelling].

Mr. BALL. And your address?

Mr. POE. 1716 Cascade Street.

Mr. BALL. And your occupation?

Mr. POE. Police officer, city of Dallas.

Mr. BALL. All right, what is your rank in the department?

Mr. POE. Patrolman.

Mr. BALL. How long have you been in the department?

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Mr. POE. Nine years and one month.

Mr. BALL. And where were you born?

Mr. POE. Winnsboro, Tex.

Mr. BALL. Where did you go to school?

Mr. POE. Winnsboro, Stephensville, and Edgewood.

Mr. BALL. How far through school did you go?

Mr. POE. Graduated from high school.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?

Mr. POE. Then went into the Navy.

Mr. BALL. How long did you stay there?

Mr. POE. Three years.

Mr. BALL Then what did you do?

Mr. POE. I was what we called a "snipe," diesel mechanic.

Mr. BALL How long did you do that work?

Mr. POE. About 2 years.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?

Mr. POE. I was in construction work. I was the carpenter when I got out of the Service.

Mr. BALL. You worked as a "snipe," in the Service, is that right?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Then you got out of the Service and worked as a construction worker?

Mr. POE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And then what did you do?

Mr. POE. I joined the police force.

Mr. BALL. What kind of work do you do on the police force?

Mr. POE. Patrol work.

Mr. BALL Patrolman?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. In a car?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL In a radio car?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Were you on duty on the 22d of November 1963?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir; I was.

Mr. BALL. What time of day?

Mr. POE. From 7 in the morning until 3 in the afternoon.

Mr. BALL. Were you alone?

Mr. POE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Who was with you?

Mr. POE. L. E. Jez.

Mr. BALL. [Spelling.] J-a-s-s.

Mr. POE. No; it is J-e-z.

Mr. BALL. What district do you patrol?

Mr. POE. I had two districts to patrol. District 105 and district 106.

Mr. BALL. Where are they located?

Mr. POE. In the western end of the downtown section.

Mr. BALL. You were a downtown patrolman?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you hear of the assassination of the President over the radio? The fact that the President had been shot?

Mr. POE. We heard the call come out on the radio. There was a signal 19, which would be a shooting of the President, at Elm and Houston Streets.

Mr. BALL. What did you do? Were you told to go some place?

Mr. POE. We reported the scene; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. To where?

Mr. POE. To Elm and Houston.

Mr. BALL. When--what did you do there?

Mr. POE. We helped cover off the building and control the crowd.

Mr. BALL. Then you went where?

Mr. POE. From there to Oak Cliff, to the scene of the Tippit shooting.

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Mr. BALL. How did you happen to go out there?

Mr. POE. I was standing close to the squad car using the squad car as part of the block to keep the crowd back and had run out of rope, and heard a citizen, I presume, get on the radio, and--because he didn't know radio procedure, called and said a police officer was shot out there. At first give the wrong address, and come back and changed it to another address, and I believe he left us in the 400 block of East Ninth, the last time, and we went out there.

Mr. BALL. You went there?

Mr. POE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And what did you find when you got there?

Mr. POE. We found----

Mr. BALL. What did you see?

Mr. POE. Found the squad car parked toward the curb, and a pool of blood at the left-front wheel of the car. The ambulance had already picked him up and the officer had left the scene when we arrived. We had--I don't know how many people there were. Looked like 150 to 200 people around there, and Mrs. Markham, I talked to her first and we got a description of the man that shot Tippit.

Mr. BALL. Do you know what the description was?

Mr. POE. Sir?

Mr. BALL. Do you know what the description was?

Mr. POE. White male, about 25, about 5 feet 8, brown hair, medium, and I believe she said had on a white jacket at the time.

Mr. BALL. What did you do then?

Mr. POE. We gave the description to several of the officers at the scene. You couldn't get on the radio at the time, there was so much traffic on the radio, and the last--the direction he was seen leaving, and then I talked to several more witnesses around there.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever put that description on the radio?

Mr. POE. I believe we did. But I couldn't swear to it.

Mr. BALL. And what happened after that?

Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe.

Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides?

Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did he tell you?

Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up.

Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn?

Mr. POE. A man, white man.

Mr. BALL. What was he doing?

Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run.

Mr. BALL. And what did he say?

Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up.

Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls?

Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls?

Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene.

Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab?

Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Mr. BALL. Did you talk to any people there?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Who?

Mr. POE. Talked to Mrs. Markham.

Mr. BALL. Did you talk to the two Davis girls?

Mr. POE. I talked to one of them, but I can't recall talking to two Davis girls.

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Mr. BALL. Do you remember what a Detective Dhority there at the scene did?

Mr. POE. I remember Detective Leavelle at the scene.

Mr. BALL. Leavelle?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did the Davis girls give you anything? Either one of the Davis girls hand you anything?

Mr. POE. She give me the same general description of the suspect as Mrs. Markham.

Mr. BALL. What was that?

Mr. POE. White male, and in his early 20's, around 5'7" or 8", about 145 pounds, and I believe she said had on a white jacket.

Mr. BALL. There is a--off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. BALL. We have here a broadcast by Walker. Do you know Walker?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Was Walker there at the scene?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir; he came by the scene after I got there.

Mr. BALL. What is his full name?

Mr. POE. I don't know. I want to say C. T. but I am not positive on that.

Mr. BALL. At 1:22 p.m., on the transcript of the radio log, I note it says, "Have a description of suspect on Jefferson. Last seen about the 300 block of East Jefferson. White male, 30's; 5'8", black hair, slender built, wearing white shirt, black slacks."

Do you know whether you gave Walker that description?

Mr. POE. I remember giving Walker a description. My partner got in the car with Walker.

Mr. BALL. Did you give Walker a description similar to that?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Well, the only difference I see between the description you said you gave the other officer and this was that you said he was in his 20's or 25, and this says about 30. Otherwise it is about the same.

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Who told you he had on a white jacket?

Mr. POE. Mrs. Markham told me first.

Mr. BALL. She did?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir; Mrs. Markham was awfully excited, and she. was--looked like about to faint, and I tried to calm her down as much as I could at first and get as much as I could out of her.

Mr. BALL. How many cartridges, or empty cartridges or shells were given to you?

Mr. POE. There were two in an empty Winston cigarette package.

Mr. BALL. Did you save the Winston cigarette package?

Mr. POE. I turned it in with the two cartridges.

Mr. BALL. To the crime lab?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Now, I have here a package which has been marked "Q"--FBI lab. Q-74 to Q-77. Would you look those over and see if there is any identification on there by you to indicate that those were the hulls given to you by Benavides?

Mr. POE. I want to say these two are mine, but I couldn't swear to it.

Mr. BALL. Did you make a mark?

Mr. POE. I can't swear to it; no, sir.

Mr. BALL. But there is a mark on two of these?

Mr. POE. There is a mark. I believe I put on them, but I couldn't swear to it. I couldn't make them out any more.

Mr. BALL. Now, the ones you said you made a mark on are you think it is 'these two? Q-77 and Q-75?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir; those two there.

Mr. BALL. Both marked Western Special? They both are marked Western Special. How long did you stay there?

Mr. POE. At the scene?

Mr. BALL. Uh-huh.

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Mr. POE. I stayed there until Leavelle and his partner from the crime lab got there.

Mr. BALL. Then you left?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir; I got out and helped try to find the suspect.

Mr. BALL. Were you at the Texas Theatre?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him apprehended?

Mr. POE. No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. BALL. You were out?

Mr. POE. At the back.

Mr. BALL. At the back?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. I think that is all, Mr. Poe.

This will be written up and submitted to you for your signature, and you can sign it if you wish, or waive your signature.

Which do you prefer?

Mr. POE. Well, sir; I don't have anything to hide. I will tell the truth.

Mr. BALL. Do you want to give your signature?

Mr. POE. I will sign it.

Mr. BALL. Okay. We'll do that. We can notify you and you can come up here and sign it.

Mr. POE. All right.