The testimony of Kay Helen Olsen was taken at 4:30 p.m., on August 6, 1964, at U.S. Post Office Building, 312 North Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Mrs. Harry Olsen is present in response to a letter request for her to appear and have her deposition taken.
Mrs. Olsen, did you receive such a letter from the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did you get that letter?
Mrs. OLSEN. Monday morning.
Mr. SPECTER. Today is Thursday, so that would have been 3 days ago?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes, I think it was Monday morning.

640

Page 641

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Is it satisfactory with you to proceed to have your deposition taken at the present time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did the letter contain the Executive order creating the Commission and the rules and regulations for the taking of depositions?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you note that you could have an attorney present if you wanted one at this time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you willing to proceed without an attorney being present on your behalf?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. The Commission has asked you to appear to give a deposition with respect to your knowledge of Jack Ruby and the events of November 22 through November 24.
With that preliminary statement of purpose, would you rise and raise your right hand, please.
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this deposition proceeding before the President's Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. OLSEN. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Mrs. OLSEN. Kay Helen Olsen.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the date of your birth, Mrs. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. The 13th of April 1936.
Mr. SPECTER. Where were you born?
Mrs. OLSEN. London, England.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you lived in the United States?
Mrs. OLSEN. Eight years.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you married to Mr. Harry Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been married to Mr. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. Seven months.
Mr. SPECTER. And were you married prior to your marriage to Mr. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the name of the gentlemen to whom you were previously married?
Mrs. OLSEN. Kennerd Coleman.
Mr. SPECTER. And when were you divorced from Mr. Coleman?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't remember the month. It was 1959.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you married on any occasion prior to your marriage to Mr. Coleman?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline briefly your educational background?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I went to an all girls school, I won a scholarship to an all girls school, and, well----
Mr. SPECTER. How old were you when you finished your formal education?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess I was about 15 1/2. We start earlier over there, you know. We go to school earlier.
Mr. SPECTER Would you outline briefly your places of residence from the time you came to the United States?
Mrs. OLSEN. Victoria, Tex.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you live in Victoria, Tex.?
Mrs. OLSEN. June 1956.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you move from Victoria, Tex.?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, that's when we first separated. I came out here to California, Riverside, Calif., and he went to Illinois.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Coleman went to Illinois and you came to Riverside, Calif., in 1956?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; 1958.
Mr. SPECTER. 1958?

641
731-230 O---64---vol.XIV-----41

Page 642

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And where have you lived since 1958?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I had to go back to Illinois. He was sick and I had to go back, and then we moved to Salina, Kans.
Mr. SPECTER. You reunited?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did you live in Salina, Kans.?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, that was the latter part of 1958.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you move from Salina, Kans.?
Mrs. OLSEN. Wichita.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in Wichita?
Mrs. OLSEN. About 6 months.
Mr. SPECTER And where did you next live after your residency in Wichita, Kans.?
Mrs. OLSEN. Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you move to Dallas?
Mrs. OLSEN. June 1961.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you reside in Dallas?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, let me see. We came out here in January of 1964. Two and a half years.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you resided here in Los Angeles since January of this year?
Mrs. OLSEN. February 1.
Mr. SPECTER. Of 1964?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you know Jack Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you first meet Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, it was around July 1961.
Mr. SPECTER. What were the circumstances of your meeting him?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I just went up to his club to see some girlfriends.
Mr. SPECTER. What club is that?
Mrs. OLSEN. Carousel Club.
Mr. SPECTER. And how did you happen to meet him?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, he asked me to go to work for him.
Mr. SPECTER. And were you subsequently employed by Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, it took me about a month to think it over, because everybody thought he wouldn't last, you know, they thought his business wouldn't last, competition wise, you know, and I went to work for him, I guess it was the latter part of July.
Mr. SPECTER. Of what year?
Mrs. OLSEN. 1961.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long did you work for him altogether?
Mrs. OLSEN. Two years and four months; on and off.
Mr. SPECTER. How did you get along with Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. Very good.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever have any disagreements with him?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; about, you know, trying to get a day off.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the cause, did you say, of the disagreement?
Mrs. OLSEN. Trying to get a day off. That was about it.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever have any other difficulties with Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; not really.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there ever romantic interest between you and Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. How did you meet Mr. Olsen, your husband?
Mrs. OLSEN. When I was working up there.
Mr. SPECTER. At the Carousel Club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. How did Mr. Ruby and Mr. Olsen get along?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, he liked Harry.
Mr. SPECTER, Did they ever argue or fight?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, over me once in a while, trying to get some time off.

642

Page 643

Mr. SPECTER. Was there ever any other disagreement between Mr. Ruby and Mr. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, he didn't think that Harry should come up there so much, me working there.
Mr. SPECTER. How frequently did Harry come to the club?
Mrs OLSEN. Oh, maybe on Saturday night for an hour or something, you know about once a week.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby ever do any favors for Mr. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I know of.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you live in September of 1963?
Mrs. OLSEN. On Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your specific address?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think it was 325 North Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER Where did Mr. Olsen live at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. In September?
Mr. SPECTER. September of 1963.
Mrs. OLSEN. 1963? I think he was at Theatre Lane.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did Mr. Ruby live in September of 1963?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he lived on Ewing, too. I don't know the address; it was out further.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your relationship with Mr. Olsen in the fall or September of 1963?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, steady.
Mr. SPECTER. You were going together steadily?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have plans to marry at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. But we couldn't because of me working, and, you know, the police department, the wives couldn't work in a place like that, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other reason why you couldn't marry Mr. Olsen at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Was his divorce final at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess. I don't know when he got it.
Mr. SPECTER. Was he separated from his wife in the fall of 1963?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he was divorced. This is just last September?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; he was divorced then. Oh, yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Ruby ever visit Mr. Olsen at his apartment?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby ever visit you at your apartment?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, he has been over for breakfast with a group, a group of people.
Mr. SPECTER. On how many occasions was he at your apartment; that is, on how many occasions was Mr. Ruby at your apartment?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I would say twice.
Mr. SPECTER. Were others always present on those occasions?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. It's hard to remember all this, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. How far was your apartment from Mr. Ruby's in the fall of 1963?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I would say a mile.
Mr. SPECTER. It wasn't a block away?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. I'm not very good at distances, but it was way at the end. He lived way out on Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER. How many blocks was it?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I don't know. He lived in two places, he lived on Marsalis once.
Mr. SPECTER. When did he live on Marsalis? How do you spell that?
Mrs. OLSEN. M-a-r-s-a-l-i-s.
Mr. SPECTER. When did he live at the Marsalis residence?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, well, I know he was there on July the 4th the year before, because we always spent July 4th over there, all the employees.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was he living in the fall of 1963, say September, October, November?

643

Page 644

Mrs. OLSEN. Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER. And how far was his Ewing Street residence from your residence at 325 Ewing?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, do you know the block number? Could you give me a block number?
Mr. SPECTER. No; I am not able to do that. Do you recollect his block number?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I don't know it. I just know the big apartment building.
Mr. SPECTER. And you don't know how many blocks it was?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't; no.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you work at Mr. Ruby's Carousel Club on a daily basis; that is, did you work every day?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; 7 days a week.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall Friday, November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. When had you seen Mr. Ruby before that Friday?
Mrs. OLSEN. Thursday night at work.
Mr. SPECTER. And do you recall whether you had any conversation with Mr. Ruby on Thursday, November 21?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I can't remember. I didn't used to talk to him too much, I stayed out of his way.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell me as precisely as you can recollect what you did on Friday, November 22.
Mrs. OLSEN. Harry was guarding an estate on 8th Street just a ways from where I lived, and I fixed a lunch for him and stopped off at the 7-11 store to get him some milk, and that's when I heard that there had been some trouble downtown; a colored lady told me that.
Mr. SPECTER. What time was that that you stopped at the 7-11 store?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess about 12:30.
Mr. SPECTER. In the afternoon?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. I can't remember the morning. I had the children and I can't remember. We probably had been in the pool or something.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you awaken that Friday morning, if you recall?
Mrs. OLSEN. It was probably late, because I worked that night.
Mr. SPECTER. And you cared for your children in the morning?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. How many children have you?
Mrs. OLSEN. Two girls.
Mr. SPECTER. And their names and ages?
Mrs. OLSEN. Susan is 9 1/2 and Sheri is 7.
Mr. SPECTER. Both of these children were born during your first marriage?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And after picking up the milk at the 7-11 store, what did you do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. I went up to give Harry his lunch, and he had heard it; some woman had called. He was sitting there and some woman had called and she wanted to speak to the lady that was supposed to be there. Harry answered the phone and she told him, I think, about the President getting shot, because he already knew when I got there, so we sat in the car and listened to the car radio, and that's how we knew about it.
Mr. SPECTER. How long were you there at the house Harry was guarding?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess about an hour.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. I called from there down to the club and this is when Harry said, "You are going to quit; this is it," you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did Harry say that to you?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I was on the verge of it anyway, we were going to come out here last August and we kept putting it off and putting it off, and--wait a minute, maybe I'm wrong. I called in and I said, "Are we open tonight?"
Mr. SPECTER. Who did you talk to?
Mrs. OLSEN. The bartender.
Mr. SPECTER. What is his name?

644

Page 645

Mrs. OLSEN. Andrew.
Mr. SPECTER. Andrew what?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. At the Carousel Club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did the bartender say
Mrs. OLSEN. I didn't get to talk to Jack Ruby. Apparently he was crying and everything.
Mr. SPECTER. How do you know that?
Mrs. OLSEN. Andy told me. And I said, "What is Jack doing?" And he said, "Oh, he is all upset and he is crying." And he said, "We are closed tonight." And after all this happened, oh, I had no desire to get back in that business or anything, I was just sick over it anyway, so that's when I said, "Well, I'm not going back." I didn't tell Jack this or anything, you know, because, you see, we are union and we have to give notice.
Mr. SPECTER. You told Mr. Olsen that day that you did not intend to go back to work for Mr. Ruby
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, business, the whole business, I was through.
Mr. SPECTER. And you made a telephone call from the house that Mr. Olsen was guarding?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do after that?
Mrs. OLSEN. I went home.
Mr. SPECTER. At about what time did you make that telephone call?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess it was around 1:15. The President was killed at 1 o'clock, wasn't he?
Mr. SPECTER. 12:30.
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I must have got there a little before that, then, because I didn't hear it until I sat in the car with Harry.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, didn't some lady tell you about it at the 7-11 store?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, she said the President had been shot; that's what she said.
Mr. SPECTER. Then what is your best recollection about when you left that house?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess about 1:30. So I must have called about 1:15.
Mr. SPECTER. Then where did you go next?
Mrs. OLSEN. I was going to take the girls to the show.
Mr. SPECTER. What show?
Mrs. OLSEN. I didn't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Some movie?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; a movie. And, well, I didn't; I wasn't in the mood to sit in a movie, you know, and I really can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER Did you see anybody that afternoon?
Mrs. OLSEN. I went and sat with my landlady.
Mr. SPECTER What is her name?
Mrs. OLSEN. She was the manager of the apartment; Mrs. Hall. We sat there.
Mr. SPECTER. What is Mrs. Hall's first name?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where does she live
Mrs. OLSEN. Ewing; 325 North Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER. When you left the house that Mr. Olsen was guarding, did you go right back to your own residence?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody that afternoon besides Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. just, I guess, neighbors.
Mr. SPECTER. Which neighbors?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know. I can't remember the names.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you telephone anybody?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I don't think so.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did you do later in the afternoon, if anything?
Mrs. OLSEN. I fixed supper for Harry and the girls. I think he got off about 4 that day.

645

Page 646

Mr. SPECTER. Well, he was guarding the house that day. Did he finish guarding the house at 4?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think the man relieved him--it was 6. The other Policeman relieved him. at 6.
Mr. SPECTER. What policeman was that?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Then Mr. Olsen came over to your residence?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes, as far as I can remember.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long did he stay there?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, we watched TV and, oh, we sat in front of that TV set for a long time, and we were all nervous and upset, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there besides you and Mr. Olsen and your two children?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you call anybody that evening by telephone?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did anybody call you that evening?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. This is as far as I can recollect. I mean I can't be positive. I just can't remember that day too well.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long did Mr. Olsen stay there that evening?
Mrs. OLSEN. We went out. We, you know, got nervous sitting there.
Mr. SPECTER. At what time did you go out?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, it was late; it was about 11.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go?
Mrs. OLSEN. We went downtown to a private club. We wanted a drink; we were kind of shook up.
Mr. SPECTER. What club did you go to?
Mrs. OLSEN. It was the Sip and Nip on Commerce Street.
Mr. SPECTER. Sip and Nip?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody there that you knew?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, we knew the bartender and the waitress. Because we didn't get out, you know, too often with me working all the time.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the bartender's name?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think his name was Lee. I'm pretty sure it was Lee.
Mr. SPECTER What was the waitress' name?
Mrs. OLSEN. I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody else you knew?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; not there.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you stay there at the club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, they close at 12.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody else you knew someplace else?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, we went--do you want to know later what happened?
Mr. SPECTER. Fine.
Mrs. OLSEN. We went to the parking lot; we used to go over there and talk to Johnny.
Mr. SPECTER. Johnny who?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where is the parking lot located?
Mrs. OLSEN. Right behind the Carousel Club; across the street on--what street would that be?
Mr. SPECTER. Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Akard?
Mr. SPECTER. Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Jackson.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that at the intersection of Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Jackson and the next street down. What was that? Field Jackson and Field. And we sat in there and we talked.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you talk to Johnny?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there at that time?

646

Page 647

Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I remember; no. And we were sitting there; it was late, and that's when Jack Ruby drove by.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did he drive by?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I can't be positive on these times.
Mr. SPECTER. About what time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess around 1.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he stop?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. We waved, and he stopped. He stopped at a red light and pulled in and he came in and sat in the car and talked to us for quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that conversation last?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess an hour or so at least.
Mr. SPECTER. As nearly as you can recollect, tell me exactly what he said and what you said to him?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, everyone was shocked, you know, and we talked about Mrs. Kennedy and the children and how terrible it was, and he told us he had been down to the police station to take the boys some sandwiches down there, and he was real upset, kind of wild-eyed, had his real stary look, and he was upset that--well, he was mad that these other clubowners hadn't closed down.
Mr. SPECTER. Which clubowners?
Mrs. OLSEN. The Theatre Lounge and the Colony Club. I hate to remember all this stuff, I really do. You know, I have such a different life now and I hate to rehash it all.
Mr. SPECTER. What else did Mr. Ruby say at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he told us he had seen Oswald transferred, if I remember right, and we asked him what he looked like and he said he looked like a little rat, real sneaky looking.
Mr. SPECTER. He saw him transferred from where to where?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know. He saw him down there. I think as they were moving him from one room to another.
Mr. SPECTER. He saw down where?
Mrs. OLSEN. At the police station.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything more about Oswald?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess he cussed him out a bit. He was just real upset.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything about what he intended to
Mrs. OLSEN. About his club?
Mr. SPECTER. About anything.
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say he intended to shoot Oswald?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether or not Ruby knew Oswald?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't think he did.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see Oswald in the club?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you ever seen Oswald at all?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What else did Ruby say at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. That's about all I can remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation about Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Was Tippit shot that day? Yes; he was, wasn't he?
Mr. SPECTER. Tippit was shot on Friday afternoon; that day.
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. I can't remember, because I didn't know Officer Tippit.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether or not Mr. Ruby knew Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I read in the papers that he did.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from what you read in the papers, do you have any personal knowledge----
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. As to whether Mr. Ruby knew Officer Tippit?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen know Officer Tippit?
Mrs. OLSEN. He said he did.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he know him well?

647

Page 648

Mrs. OLSEN. He said he had never been over to his house or anything, he just seen him in the locker room, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. During the course of that conversation what did you say, that is, when Mr. Ruby came by and you were parked at the parking lot talking to Johnny?
Mrs OLSEN. Just how terrible everything was.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall anything else that you said specifically?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you say, "In England they would have hung Oswald by his toes and dragged him through the street?"
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any reference at all to what would happen to Oswald if he were in England?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there anything else you can recollect about that conversation?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you talked to Ruby earlier on that Friday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. How long had you been at that parking lot before Ruby arrived?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess about an hour, as close as I can remember.
Mr. SPECTER. During the course of that conversation, did Ruby say anything about the Weissman ad?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know what you mean.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you know of any advertisement in the newspaper containing derogatory remarks or unfavorable comments about President Kennedy?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby say anything during that conversation about the radicals in Dallas?
Mrs. OLSEN. The what?
Mr. SPECTER. The radicals in Dallas.
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know what that means.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything about the John Birch Society?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything about the Communists in Dallas?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything about the radical right?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby say anything about the effect on Jews?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you say anything to Mr. Ruby about his closing his club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, just in conversation I asked him how long he thought he could close. See, I didn't give him notice or anything, I had to get hold of the union man first, because the union, you know, you have to give a 2-week notice, otherwise you have to pay them 2 weeks' salary. But I got out of that, I talked to the union man and he said--well, I think they call it an act of God when something like this happens, and you just don't want any part of working like that any more. I think that made all of us think a little bit.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you praise Ruby for closing up the club after the assassination?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes, I thought it was the right thing to do.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you tell him so?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen say anything about that?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen shake his hand for closing up the club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, they used to shake hands all the time. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you upset at that time about the assassination?
Mrs. OLSEN. Very.
Mr. SPECTER. Was Mr. Olsen upset?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; very much.
Mr. SPECTER. And how about Mr. Ruby, how was he?
Mrs. OLSEN. Real upset.

648

Page 649

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe about him that led you to the conclusion that he was upset?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, he looked awful tired and he would sit back and stare off into space, and he never cried or anything, but, you know, he would just keep saying over and over how terrible it was, what a wonderful man the President was and how sorry he felt for Mrs. Kennedy and the children.
Mr. SPECTER. After Mr. Ruby left what did you and Mr. Olsen do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. We came home to my house.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at your house?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, let me see. It was kind of late, I guess around 3.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess I went to bed.
Mr. SPECTER. What did Mr. Olsen do?
Mrs. OLSEN. He left. He was living on Theatre yes, he left.
Mr. SPECTER. He was living where?
Mrs. OLSEN. Theatre Lane. He went to Theatre Lane.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you awaken the next morning, which would have been Saturday?
Mrs. OLSEN. Now, can I ask you, is this the day Oswald was shot?
Mr. SPECTER. Oswald was shot on Sunday.
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, Saturday ? Oh, I would say around 11.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you----
Mrs. OLSEN. I had to go pick up my daughters, see, from the babysitter.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody that you knew on that Saturday?
Mrs. OLSEN. I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you telephone anybody?
Mrs. OLSEN. I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did anyone telephone you?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I have girl friends, you know, and we probably called each other.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you recall any specific girl friend who either called you or whom you called?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Mr. Olsen later that day?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know if he was working or not. I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall when you did see him next?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Oh, we went out that evening.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know. I can't remember. I'm not being very helpful, am I? But it was what, 9 months ago.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall seeing anybody else you knew on that evening besides Mr. Olsen?
Mrs. OLSEN. We saw Jack Ruby standing outside of his club. We parked.
Mr. SPECTER. What time was that?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess around 9. And he was standing outside and he covered up all these pictures or something.
Mr. SPECTER. He had covered up the pictures?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he had covered up pictures.
Mr. SPECTER. What pictures did he cover up?
Mrs. OLSEN. Of the girls, you know, in the show. I think he covered them up or something, or took them out or something.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did he do that, do you know?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to Mr. Ruby on that occasion?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. We just pulled in the parking lot and said "Hi, how are you," and he said "OK." It was just hello and goodbye, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever talked to Mr. Ruby since that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. That evening?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. We went out, but I can't remember where.

649

Page 650

Mr. SPECTER. Do you remember whether you saw anybody that night, or whether you talked to anybody you knew?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I don't know. I don't even know where we went.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive home that night?
Mrs. OLSEN. Probably late.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls after you arrived home?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What did Mr. Olsen do after he brought you home?
Mrs. OLSEN. Went home, I guess.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall what time you awakened on the next day, which would have been Sunday, the day Oswald was shot?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; my daughter woke me. Can you tell me what time did this happen, the shooting, and I can tell you what time I woke up, because my daughter woke me up and told me about it, because she knew Jack, see.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, what is your best recollection as to what time your daughter awakened you?
Mrs. OLSEN. I expect 11:30, I guess. Because I get up in the morning and fix their breakfast and everything and then I go back to bed.
Mr. SPECTER. What did she say to you?
Mrs. OLSEN. She said, "Jack shot Oswald," and I said, "Oh, no; don't be silly," you know, but I got out of bed and turned on the TV and it was just--it was just coming on, I think then, and I recognized him by the back of his head, you know, from his back, and then, of course, my neighbors started knocking because they knew where I worked and they said, "Have you heard," you know, and, oh, I couldn't believe it.
Mr. SPECTER. What neighbor did that?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I think my landlady.
Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. OLSEN. Mrs. Hall; yes, probably.
Mr. SPECTER. Anybody else?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think Nancy, one of the girls across the way, came in and had some coffee.
Mr. SPECTER. What is Nancy's last name?
Mrs. OLSEN. Ernest.
Mr. SPECTER. Where does she live?
Mrs. OLSEN. She lives in one of the apartments on Ewing.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to anybody else at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Because I think that was the night we were going up to--I had never met Harry's parents. This was another reason I quit, you know, and I wouldn't have to lie to them or anything, you know. And I was hunting up a babysitter, that's right.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to anybody else on that Sunday by telephone or in person?
Mrs. OLSEN . No.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do that Sunday?
Mrs. OLSEN. We went to Wichita Falls--Henrietta, Henrietta.
Mr. SPECTER. How far is Henrietta?
Mrs. OLSEN. About 160 miles, I think. To Harry's parents.
Mr. SPECTER. On Sunday, November 24?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think that was the night. I'm sure that was the Sunday.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you leave Dallas?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, about 2 in the afternoon, I guess.
Mr. SPECTER. And what time did you arrive at Henrietta, Tex.?
Mrs. OLSEN. I got that wrong. It was dark when we got there. I guess we left later, about 4. I think we got there about 6:30. It was dark or something, I don't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you stay at Henrietta?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, about 3 hours.
Mr. SPECTER. And what time did you leave?
Mrs. OLSEN. About 10, I guess.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you drive back to Dallas that night?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

650

Page 651

Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you see at Henrietta?
Mrs. OLSEN. Harry's parents, And then we visited another friend of the family.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the name of that friend?
Mrs. OLSEN. His name was Harry, I don't know his last name.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you visit or meet anyone else at Henrietta?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. While you were at Henrietta did you talk to anyone over the telephone?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do when you arrived back in Dallas late that Sunday night?
Mrs. OLSEN. Went to bed.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you listening to the radio or television before Oswald was shot that Sunday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; I was sleeping.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear any announcements on that day that Oswald was about to be move?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Ruby on that Sunday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to Ruby on that Sunday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. After you heard that Oswald was shot did you contact anybody?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think I called Jean, my girl friend in Grand Prairie.
Mr. SPECTER. What is Jean's last name?
Mrs. OLSEN. Jean Simms.
Mr. SPECTER. In Grand Prairie, Tex.?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the purpose of contacting her?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, about Jack, you know, what a shock it was.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did you call her?
Mrs. OLSEN. She was my closest friend.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any specific purpose in calling her?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; it was--you know, when somebody you work for does something like this you just want to talk to someone, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you call anybody else?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did anybody else call you?
Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I can remember. There might have been a girl friend or something.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you ever go back to the Carousel Club after that Sunday?
Mrs. OLSEN. We went up New Year's Eve for a few minutes just to see some of the girls that worked up there, and it was a real terrible atmosphere. We didn't stay long.
Mr. SPECTER. Of course, Mr. Ruby wasn't there at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever go back to work at the Carousel Club after Oswald was shot?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you go back to the Carousel Club to get your clothes?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you do that?
Mrs. OLSEN. When?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. When I got the clearance from the union, he said it was all right.
Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you deal with to get the clearance from the union?
Mrs. OLSEN. Tom Palmer.
Mr. SPECTER How do you spell his last name?
Mrs. OLSEN. P-a-l-m-e-r.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did you get the clearance from Mr. Palmer?

651

Page 652

Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I didn't work for a couple of weeks there, so it was over that period, you know, a couple of weeks.
Mr. SPECTER. When is your best recollection, then, as to when you went back to the club to get your clothes?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess a week later.
Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you see?
Mrs. OLSEN. The bartender let me in.
Mr. SPECTER. What was his name?
Mrs. OLSEN. Andrew.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you say to him, if anything?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, he didn't have too much to say to me. I think they thought I was a traitor for not sticking with them, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you crying at the time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; I think I was.
Mr. SPECTER. Why were you crying?
Mrs. OLSEN. I felt sorry for Jack at that time, if I remember rightly.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you say----
Mrs. OLSEN. Just a minute, I'm just trying to think. I think Tom Howard, Jack Ruby's attorney, was up there at that time, and he got me in tears, I think.
Mr. SPECTER. How did he get you in tears, so to speak?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I was upset anyway, and nervous, and, well, he just talked about Jack said hello to all of us and he didn't feel bad about me quitting, anything I wanted to do was all right, not to worry about it, you know, worry about quitting. You see, most of the girls stayed.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there at the time you went back to get your clothes?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. But you recollect seeing attorney Tom Howard and bartender Andy?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think that was the same day. I'm not sure.
Mr. SPECTER. But were you back there on any other day?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. The way I am confused, one evening we were up there.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that New Year's Eve?
Mrs. OLSEN. Before I got my clothes. No; it was before that.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say you were up there, whom do you mean?
Mrs. OLSEN. Alice and I, a girl friend.
Mr. SPECTER. What is Alice's last name?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think she quit, too, at that time.
Mr. SPECTER. What is Alice's last name?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh----
Mr. SPECTER. Not Alice Nichol?
Mrs. OLSEN. Alexander.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it Alice Ntchol?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; Alice Alexander, I think it was. She was a waitress.
Mr. SPECTER. Where does she live?
Mrs. OLSEN. Grand Prairie.
Mr. SPECTER. And when was it that you and she were there together?
Mrs. OLSEN. I can't remember. It was some evening.
Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you see when you were there?
Mrs. OLSEN. It seems like that was the night the attorney was up there. I went up to get my paycheck; that's right; I went up to get my paycheck. That's the night I was up there.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby pay you by check or by cash ?
Mrs. OLSEN. Check, and then we would sign the check and he would give us the cash, you know, like that.
Mr. SPECTER. And who was there on that occasion?
Mrs. OLSEN. What occasion?
Mr. SPECTER. When you went to get your paycheck.
Mrs. OLSEN. That was when Alice came with me. I'm pretty sure that this was the night that Tom Howard was up there, and that was the night that I was crying, I think.
Mr. SPECTER Was there anybody there besides you and Alice and Tom Howard?

652

Page 653

Mr. OLSEN. No; I think Andrew was even out of the office quite a bit.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any occasion to leave Dallas soon after November 24th, the Sunday when Oswald was shot?
Mrs. OLSEN. How soon? What do you mean?
Mr. SPECTER. Within a few days?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you go to work in Oklahoma City?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; that was about--I think it was about 2 weeks after. I wanted to make some money for Christmas.
Mr. SPECTER. For whom did you work in Oklahoma City?
Mrs. OLSEN. It was the Kings Club. I can't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have an arrangement to go up there to work?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; an agent got me a booking.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you make that arrangement to go there to work?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, within that 2 weeks afterward.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Tammi True in Oklahoma City?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; I stayed with her; we shared a room.
Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you tell her?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, we discussed a lot of things about it.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you talk about with respect to Jack Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. What a crazy thing he did. And that I would never go back to work there. That was about it.
Mr. SPECTER How long did you stay with Tammi True?
Mrs. OLSEN. Three weeks.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did she live?
Mrs. OLSEN. We had a motel. It was the club owner's motel where he rented to the entertainers. I can't remember the name of it.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other reason why you left Dallas to go to Oklahoma City?
Mrs. OLSEN. No; just to make some money for Christmas.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen have an accident at about that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; while I was up there.
Mr. SPECTER. What happened to him exactly?
Mrs. OLSEN. He totaled his car; hit a telephone pole.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say "totaled," you mean a total wreck?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What injuries, if any, did he sustain?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he broke two bones in his leg and he separated his shoulder and he had multiple chest injuries, black eye.
Mr. SPECTER. Was he hospitalized?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Where?
Mrs. OLSEN. Methodist Hospital.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did you later go to California?
Mrs. OLSEN. Why did we come out here?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, we had no desire to stay in Dallas. He used up all his sick time on the police department, and, well, we wanted to come out here a year--well, last August we were going to come out here and we didn't have enough money, and then he got his settlement from the car and I saved a little money and so we just came out here. We always wanted to come out to California.
Mr. SPECTER. Going back to the Friday of the assassination and the following Saturday and the following Sunday when Oswald was shot, during that time did you see or talk to Little Lynn?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. During that time did you see or talk to Tammi True?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. During that time did you see or talk to Bruce Carlin?
Mrs. OLSEN. Who?
Mr. SPECTER. Bruce Carlin.
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know who that is.

653

Page 654

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know a Bruce Carlin?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. During that time did you see or talk to Tom O'Grady?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know him.
Mr. SPECTER. During that time did you see or talk to Blackie Harrison?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know him either.
Mr. SPECTER. During that same time did you see or talk to Ralph Paul?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; I called him on the oh, now, wait. You are saying from the Friday to the Sunday?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER When did you talk to Ralph Paul?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess it was Monday when they reopened the club. I think that was the day they reopened it, I'm not sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Ralph Paul in person or did you talk to him on the telephone?
Mrs. OLSEN. I talked to him on the telephone and I told him I wasn't coming back to work, and he said "Well, it's up to you." He was very cool.
Mr. SPECTER. What connection if any, did he have with the Carousel Club?
Mrs. OLSEN. I think he is the owner.
Mr. SPECTER. The coowner with Ruby?
Mrs. OLSEN. I thought Jack Ruby was just like managing it, you know, a front; that Ralph had all the money in the place.
Mr. SPECTER. What else was in that conversation between you and Ralph Paul, if anything?
Mrs. OLSEN. That was it.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Ralph Paul tell you that Ruby told him Saturday night he was going to shoot Oswald?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you sure?
Mrs. OLSEN. I'm sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Paul tell you anything about what Ruby told him?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER During the time from that Friday, November 22, until the following Sunday on November 24, did you see or talk to George Senator?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. During that time did you see or talk to Eva Grant?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Or Breck Wall?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Or Mickey Ryan?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know him oh, yes; I do; but I didn't see him.
Mr. SPECTER. During that same time did you see or talk to Tom Howard?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Now, this is the Friday to the Sunday, right?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Lieutenant Butler, did you see or talk to Lieutenant Butler during that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know him.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know Detective L. D. Miller?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any other telephone calls during that time from November 22 to November 24?
Mrs. OLSEN. Other than girl friends?
Mr. SPECTER. Other than the ones you have already told me about.
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you receive any telephone calls from the day of the assassination until the following Sunday, other than those you have already told me about?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see or hear of Oswald before November 22?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.

654

Page 655

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know Bertha Cheek?
Mrs. OLSEN. Is this who they call Aunt Bertha, the one that works at the Colony Club?
Mr. SPECTER. I am not able to say.
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, that's the only Bertha I know. I have worked with her.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever know of any Bertha Cheek who operated an apartment house?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know Eugene Smith?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether Jack Ruby was ever a member of any subversive organization which advocated the forceful overthrow of the U.S. Government?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER Do you know whether any of his family of friends was ever a member of such an organization?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know that either.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know anything about Ruby's trip to Cuba?
Mrs. OLSEN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know anything about Mr. Ruby's attitude towards the John Birch Society?
Mrs. OLSEN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know anything about Mr. Ruby's attitude towards the Minutemen?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know what that means.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think might be helpful in any way to the President's Commission?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. I wish I could help you, but that's about all I can remember, just as an employee and that's about it.
Mr. SPECTER. Before the oath was administered to you, that is, before I swore you in, did you and I have a very brief conversation about the subject matter that I would ask you about during this deposition?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you answer the questions for me at that time in the same way that you have on the record here this afternoon?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Olsen, we permit the witnesses to read the depositions and to sign them if they wish to do so, and during the course of the deposition with Mr. Olsen, it was concluded that he would read and sign his deposition, so this transcript, which is the typing up of the questions and answers, will be made available to you to read and sign.
Mrs. OLSEN. Okay.
Mr. SPECTER. And that concludes the deposition and we thank you very much for coming here today.
Mrs. OLSEN. All right.