NURSE AUDREY BELL
HSCA Record Number 180-10090-10264 Agency File Number 000915
Originator-HSCA
From: Bell, Audrey N.
To:
Date: 03/12/77
Pages: 7
Subjects:
Bell
, Audrey N.
Connally, John
Parkland
Staff
Parkland
Methodology
Medical Evidence
Bullets
Release Date: 10/25/93
Contents: Transcript of tape recorded interview of Audrey N. Bell, R.N., by Howard Gilbert and Jack Moriarty of the JFK Task Force for the HSCA on March 12, 1977; Saturday, at 6:35 p.m. Document in full follows typed exactly as original:
Interview of: Audrey N. Bell
By Howard Gilbert and Jack Moriarty (JFK Task Force)
Date: March, 12, 1977, Saturday
Time: 6:35 p.m.
Location: Apartment of Miss Bell
4317
Hartford
-
Apt. #
103
Dallas
,
TX
Also present: Miss Bell's sister
G: Now, Miss Bell, you can observe that we are tape recording a statement from you, can you not?
B: Yes.
G: And this is done with your permission, is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: Now, prior to our taping this statement, we chatted for some 15 - 20 minutes, is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: All right. Now, Miss Bell, I want to direct your attention to November 22, 1963, and ask where you where employed at that time.
B:
Parkland
Memorial
Hospital
,
Dallas
.
G: And in what capacity were you employed?
B: Supervisor of the operating rooms and recovery rooms.
G: Now do you recall the incident where Gov. Connally was operated on on [sic] that day?
B: Yes.
G: And do you recall who the orthopedic surgeon was?
B: Yes, Dr. Charles Gregory.
G: And who was the thorasic [sic] surgeon?
[end of page one of interview]
2.
B: Dr. Robert Shaw.
G: Now, you have informed me that certain foreign bodies were taken from the body of Gov. Connally. Is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: And what is the procedure that was used at the hospital for the removal and recovery of foreign objects.
B: On that, ah, the procedure is that the objects were removed by the surgeon, and either placed in a container or given to the scrub nurse to place in a container on the scrub nurse's table. Then they are taken. . . . . . . .
G: Wait just a minute, would you describe the type of container that they would be placed in?
B: A small glass container about one ounce medicine glass.
G: Similar to a size and shape to a shot glass?
B: That's right.
G: All right, after the objects are placed into the container by either the doctor of the scrub nurse, what then occurs?
B: On that particular case they were given to me, and I took them in my office and prepared one of our foreign body envelopes. . .
G: Foreign body envelopes? What is that, would you explain that?
B: We had a foreign body envelope in which we could record the name of the patient, the hospital identification number, the foreign body with the description, whether there were any markings on it, who the surgeon was, and we signed it off ourselves.
G: Would you describe on the envelope the number of objects placed within the envelope?
B: Yes.
G: And with respect to the objects taken from Gov. Connally's body, who prepared that particular envelope?
B: I did.
G: Was that done in your own hand?
B: Yes.
[end of page two of document]
3.
G: And did you place the objects that you took from the operating room in the envelope yourself?
B: Yes.
G: Did you seal it yourself?
B: Yes.
G: And did you place the description of those objects on the envelope?
B: Yes.
G: Now, to the best of your present recollection, how many individual foreign objects were placed into that envelope? Taken from Gov. Connally's body?
B: Four or five, I am not sure at this particular time.
G: Do you have a recollection as to whether or not those objects were metalic [sic] objects?
B: Yes, they were metalic [sic]. Grayish in color, as well as I recall.
G: All right, and after you placed them into the foreign body envelope and sealed that envelope, what did you do with it?
B: I delivered them to the FBI, and he signed for them, this was a deviation from our procedure, he signed, ah, there was a, took an inter-office memorandum and wrote on there about my delivering those to the FBI. I believe Mr. Sorrels, and signed it, this. . . . . . .
G: Now, you believe that it was Mr. Sorrels?
B: I believe so, I recall this name. I recall this name.
G: You recall the name but you're not positive at this point that it was Sorrels?
B: No, No [sic]. I'm not sure.
G: But it was someone from the FBI who showed you identification. . .
B: The FBI or Secret Service, that I gave it to. And I think it was the FBI.
G: Did they show you identification?
B: They probably did. I saw so much ID that day that, ah, bacause [sic] we had so many of these people in surgury [sic].
[end of page three of document]
4.
G: When the envelope was turned over, it was in a sealed condition, is that right?
B: It was sealed.
G: And if the envelope was to be produced today, and the envelope described the number of metalic [sic] objects, that would have been the number that you yourself ascertained went into the envelope at the time that you sealed it?
B: Yes.
G: You're sure of that.
B: Well, that's what I put into it, I don't what [sic] would have happedned [sic] to it since then.
G: Fine. Now, you're best recollection you indicated to me was how many specific types of foreign objects were numbered?
B: Four or five.
G: All right. Now, I have asked you to, on a piece of paper, with a pencil, to draw, to draw for me if you would, the smallest size, on a one surface size, of the foreign objects. Would you do that again, please?
B: It's difficult.
G: All right. Now, would you please put a large circle around that? And would you write your name next to it, please? And would you place todays [sic] date, which is March 12th. Now you have written that in pencil, have you not?
B: That's right.
G: Will you circle the entire thing that you have done with a blue felt tip pen? And would you write on there, Exhibit A. Now, Mr. Moriarty, I'm going to ask that you also sign that sheet of paper at this point. Now, If [sic] I understand you correctly, you're saying that of the objects, the foreign bodies that you placed into the envelope, the small penciled diagram that you have just drawn, indicates the smallest, in your recollection, of the foreign objects that would have gone in.
B: Yes.
G: Would you fill in the blue ink the little circle describing the object that you have drawn in pencil. In other words, just kind of color it in blue, so that we have it as a permanent record.
[end of page four of document]
5.
G: All right. Thank you. Now, you're. we may have said this, we indicated that we were taking this statement at your residence, which was 4317
Hartford
, your home phone is 526-5369? And your present office address is, rather telephone number is 637-3820, x 317?
B: Yes.
G: And you are presently employed by who?
B: Children's medical center.
G: And you are the what?
B: Supervisor of the operating suite.
G: All right. Now is there anything that you would like to add, with respect to what we have discussed here? To make your statement more complete, or to explain anything that we have discussed while the tape recorder has been on?
B: Just that, it has been many years, and this is all just trying to recollect what happened on that date. I could not swear, you know, I cannot be absolutely certain, of the number of small fragments.
G: Your best recollection is. . . . . . . .
B: But my recollection is 4 to 5.
G: Mr. Moriarty, do you have something to add?
M: No, I haven't.
G: Then, it is now 6:45 p.m. and this is the termination of the tape.
[end of page five and final page of document]
[Note: Audrey Bell's drawing of the metallic fragments is not attached to the interview]
There were eight fragment specimens recovered from the Dallas
shooting. Only
one of these ( CE 842-Q9 ) was recivered from Connally. It weighed 0.5
grains
and had to come from 399. And since none of the copper outer skin of
399 was
missing and the FBI tested the 0.5 grain fragment for copper , we can
only
conclude that the fragment somehow came from the inner core of the
bullet.
There is another problem with the Connally fragments. Dr. Robert
Shaw, the
surgeon that operated on the Governor, told the Warren Wizards that he
believed
that more than three grains were in the wrist alone.
Audrey Bell, the operating room nurse, stated that there were four
or five
fragments " anywhere from three to four millimeters in length and a
couple of
millimeters wide. " These fragments disappeared at the autopsy.
In addition, what happened to the fragment found in Connally's leg
wound?
Also, there was a fragment in the governor's chest that was never
recovered, He
died with fragments still in his body that may have weighed more than
the
alleged two or three missing grains from 399, a bullet described as
pristine or
near pristine, and the Wizards also say: "The Governor's wrist would
was not
caused by a pristine bullet." ( p.94 ).
Only because 399 was found at Parkland did the Warrens have to
explain its
part in the drama. They didn't know if it was the bullet that hit JFK
and
Connally anymore than any of us do. They didn't know for sure if a
shot missed
(WR p.111) They didn't know for sure if the fragments in the car
came from
the JFK/ Connally hit or from the head shot. With their unprofessional
logic,
they guessed that they came from the head shot. .. since a shot missed
and 399
was from JFK/JC, ergo, the frags had to come from the head shot. Yet,
they
weren't sure about the two fragments found in the car: "The heavier
fragment
was a portion of a bullet's nose and a lighter fragment consisted of
a
bullet's base portion." Then, "The two fragments were both mutilated
and it was
not possible to determine from the fragments themselves whether they
comprised
the base and nose of one bullet or of two separate bullets."
If one shot missed the car and one was found complete at Parkland,
how could
anyone believe that the fragment nose and base could have come from
separate
shots.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md184.pdf
HSCA Record Number 180-10090-10264 Agency File Number 000915
Originator-HSCA
From: Bell, Audrey N.
To:
Date: 03/12/77
Pages: 7
Subjects: Bell, Audrey N.
Connally, John
Parkland Staff
Parkland Methodology
Medical Evidence
Bullets
Release Date: 10/25/93
Contents: Transcript of tape recorded interview of
Audrey N.
Bell, R.N., by
Howard Gilbert and Jack Moriarty of the
JFK Task Force for the
HSCA on March 12, 1977; Saturday,
at 6:35 p.m. Document in full follows typed exactly as original:
Interview of: Audrey N. Bell
By Howard Gilbert and Jack Moriarty (JFK Task Force)
Date: March, 12, 1977, Saturday
Time: 6:35 p.m.
Location: Apartment of Miss Bell
4317 Hartford - Apt. #103
Dallas, TX
Also present: Miss Bell's sister
G: Now, Miss Bell, you can observe that we are tape recording a
statement from you, can you not?
B: Yes.
G: And this is done with your permission, is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: Now, prior to our taping this statement, we chatted for some 15 -
20 minutes, is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: All right. Now, Miss Bell, I want to direct your attention
to
November 22, 1963, and ask where you where employed at that
time.
B: Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas.
G: And in what capacity were you employed?
B: Supervisor of the operating rooms and recovery rooms.
G: Now do you recall the incident where Gov. Connally was operated
on on [sic] that day?
B: Yes.
G: And do you recall who the orthopedic surgeon was?
B: Yes, Dr. Charles Gregory.
G: And who was the thorasic [sic] surgeon?
[end of page one of interview]
2.
B: Dr. Robert Shaw.
G: Now, you have informed me that certain foreign bodies were taken
from the body of Gov. Connally. Is that correct?
B: Yes.
G: And what is the procedure that was used at the hospital for the
removal and recovery of foreign objects.
B: On that, ah, the procedure is that the objects were removed by
the surgeon, and either placed in a container or
given to the
scrub nurse to place in a container on the scrub nurse's table. Then
they are taken. . . . . . . .
G: Wait just a minute, would you describe the type of container that
they would be placed in?
B: A small glass container about one ounce medicine glass.
G: Similar to a size and shape to a shot glass?
B: That's right.
G: All right, after the objects are placed into the container by
either the doctor of the scrub nurse, what then occurs?
B: On that particular case they were given to me, and I took them in
my office and prepared one of our foreign body
envelopes. . .
G: Foreign body envelopes? What is that, would you explain
that?
B: We had a foreign body envelope in which we could record the name
of the patient, the hospital identification number, the
foreign
body with the description, whether there were any markings on it, who
the surgeon was, and we signed it off ourselves.
G: Would you describe on the envelope the number of objects placed
within the envelope?
B: Yes.
G: And with respect to the objects taken from Gov. Connally's body,
who prepared that particular envelope?
B: I did.
G: Was that done in your own hand?
B: Yes.
[end of page two of document]
3.
G: And did you place the objects that you took from the operating
room in the envelope yourself?
B: Yes.
G: Did you seal it yourself?
B: Yes.
G: And did you place the description of those objects on the
envelope?
B: Yes.
G: Now, to the best of your present recollection, how many
individual foreign objects were placed into that
envelope? Taken
from Gov. Connally's body?
B: Four or five, I am not sure at this particular time.
G: Do you have a recollection as to whether or not those objects
were metalic [sic] objects?
B: Yes, they were metalic [sic]. Grayish in color, as well as
I
recall.
G: All right, and after you placed them into the foreign body
envelope and sealed that envelope, what did you do with it?
B: I delivered them to the FBI, and he signed for them, this was a
deviation from our procedure, he signed, ah, there was a, took an
inter-office memorandum and wrote on there about
my delivering
those to the FBI. I believe Mr. Sorrels, and signed it,
this. . . . . . .
G: Now, you believe that it was Mr. Sorrels?
B: I believe so, I recall this name. I recall this name.
G: You recall the name but you're not positive at this point that it
was Sorrels?
B: No, No [sic]. I'm not sure.
G: But it was someone from the FBI who showed you
identification. . .
B: The FBI or Secret Service, that I gave it to. And I think
it was
the FBI.
G: Did they show you identification?
B: They probably did. I saw so much ID that day that, ah,
bacause
[sic] we had so many of these people in surgury
[sic].
[end of page three of document]
4.
G: When the envelope was turned over, it was in a sealed condition,
is that right?
B: It was sealed.
G: And if the envelope was to be produced today, and the envelope
described the number of metalic [sic] objects, that would have
been
the number that you yourself ascertained went into the envelope at
the time that you sealed it?
B: Yes.
G: You're sure of that ?.
B: Well, that's what I put into it, I don't what [sic] would have
happedned [sic] to it since then.
G: Fine. Now, you're best recollection you indicated to me was
how
many specific types of foreign objects were numbered?
B: Four or five.
G: All right. Now, I have asked you to, on a piece of paper,
with a
pencil, to draw, to draw for me if you would, the smallest size, on
a one surface size, of the
foreign objects. Would you do
that again, please?
B: It's difficult.
G: All right. Now, would you please put a large circle around
that? And would you write your name next to it,
please? And
would you place todays [sic] date, which is March 12th.
Now you
have written that in pencil, have you not?
B: That's right.
G: Will you circle the entire thing that you have done with a blue
felt tip pen? And would you write on there, Exhibit A.
Now, Mr.
Moriarty, I'm going to ask that you also sign that sheet of paper at
this point. Now, If [sic] I understand you correctly,
you're
saying that of the objects, the foreign bodies that you placed into
the envelope, the small penciled diagram that you have just drawn,
indicates the smallest, in your recollection, of the foreign objects
that would have gone in.
B: Yes.
G: Would you fill in the blue ink the little circle describing the
object that you have drawn in pencil. In
other words, just kind
of color it in blue, so that we have it as a permanent
record.
[end of page four of document]
5.
G: All right. Thank you. Now, you're. we may have said
this, we
indicated that we were taking this statement at your
residence,
which was 4317 Hartford, your home phone is 526-5369?
And your
present office address is, rather telephone number is 637-3820, x
317?
B: Yes.
G: And you are presently employed by who?
B: Children's medical center.
G: And you are the what?
B: Supervisor of the operating suite.
G: All right. Now is there anything that you would like to
add,
with respect to what we have discussed here? To make your
statement
more complete, or to explain
anything that we have discussed while the tape recorder has been on?
B: Just that, it has been many years, and this is all just trying to
recollect what happened on that date. I could not
swear, you
know, I cannot be absolutely
certain, of the number of
small fragments.
G: Your best recollection is. . . . . . . .
B: But my recollection is 4 to 5.
G: Mr. Moriarty, do you have something to add?
M: No, I haven't.
G: Then, it is now 6:45 p.m. and this is the termination of the
tape.
[end of page five and final page of document]
[Note: Audrey Bell's drawing of the metallic fragments is not
attached to the interview]
Bell, the operating room nurse, stated that there were four or five
fragments " anywhere from three to four millimeters in length and a
couple of
millimeters wide. " These fragments
disappeared at the autopsy.
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