TESTIMONY OF THEODORE JACKSON

The testimony of Theodore Jackson was taken at 9:30 a.m, on April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex, by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, this is the deposition of Theodore Jackson.
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Jackson, my name is Leon Hubert, I am a member of the advisory staff of the General Counsel of the President's Commission. Under provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, a Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take the sworn deposition from you, Mr. Jackson. I state to you now the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular, as to you, Mr. Jackson, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine the facts that you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry, in particular about parking of Mr. Jack Ruby's car in that lot on that Sunday, as it were. Now, I understand that you have not received a letter of request which was sent to you in care of the All State Parking lot, at Main and Expressway. Then under the rules adopted by the Commission every witness has the right to have a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of his deposition, but the rules of the Commission also provide that a witness who has not received that 3-day written notice may waive it if he sees fit to do so. Are you willing to waive it and have your testimony taken without the 3-day----
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. State you name, please.
Mr. JACKSON. Theodore Jackson.
Mr. HUBERT. And your age?
Mr. JACKSON. Thirty-six.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you live, Mr. Jackson? Your home?
Mr. JACKSON. 2649 Carpenter Street.
Mr. HUBERT. Carpenter?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Dallas?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, Mr. Jackson?
Mr. JACKSON. Parking cars.
Mr. HUBERT. Parking cars?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you work?
Mr. JACKSON. 2001 Pacific.
Mr. HUBERT. All State?
Mr. JACKSON. That is All State Parking, uh-huh.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you sometimes work at other branches of All State Parking?
Mr. JACKSON. 2305 Main Street where the car was parked.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that on the corner of Main and Pearl Expressway?
Mr. JACKSON. That is the onliest place I work, where the--Western Union
 

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is across the street and the city hall is a block up the street where he shot him.
Mr. HUBERT. It is just about the corner of Main and Pearl Expressway, and you gave the number as 2535?
Mr. JACKSON. 2035.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on duty working at the All State Parking lot on Main Street on Sunday, November 24, 1963, which was the Sunday after the President got shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, I don't know if it were Sunday. I was on duty when Mr. Ruby shot Oswald. I mean, I was on the lot the Sunday he shot him, but he was already parked there.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't remember what date it was but you do remember that it was the Sunday that Oswald was shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Uh-huh, his car was parked on my lot.
Mr. HUBERT. Whose car was parked on your lot?
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know him before that time?
Mr. JACKSON. No, I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Never seen him before?
Mr. JACKSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you get on duty that day?
Mr. JACKSON. Around noon, always come down around noon.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it correct to say then when you came on duty Oswald had already been shot?
Mr. JACKSON. I think he had already been shot, because it was a lot of people around the city hall up there and John L. Daniels--John L. Daniels was already on duty. He was working the Norton block right next to it.
Mr. HUBERT. What?
Mr. JACKSON. Belonged to Ralph Norton, Mr. Ralph Norton.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell that name?
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Ralph Norton.
Mr. HUBERT. Ralph North? N-o-r-t-o-n?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; R-a-l-p-h.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, Daniels worked on the parking lot next to the one you were working on?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And that parking lot belonged to this Ralph Norton?
Mr. JACKSON. Uh-huh.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you say Daniels was already on duty when you came on duty?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, he was there when I got there.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you talk to him?
Mr. JACKSON. No, I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you say Mr. Ruby's car was already parked on your lot?
Mr. JACKSON. It was parked on my lot.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you know that?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, I didn't know whose car it was until these two detectives came down and was searching the car.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, will you describe what kind of an automobile it was?
Mr. JACKSON. It was an Oldsmobile, two-door sedan, white.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever seen it before?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How can a person park on your lot without there being any attendant there?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, they pull in and leave their car, and take the key and lock it up if you are not there.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there anybody on duty before you got there?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir; I unlocked the door and opened up.
Mr. HUBERT. Opened up? Well, the parking lot is not a closed parking lot?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir; it is open 7 days a week.
Mr. HUBERT. It is an open lot so that when you unlocked the door, what do you mean?
 

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Mr. JACKSON. The office door.
Mr. HUBERT. Are there any chains or anything to keep a person from driving right on in so that before anyone comes on duty any person can drive in and leave his car?
Mr. JACKSON. Drive in and leave it.
Mr. HUBERT. And if they depart before one of the attendants comes, well, then, they don't pay anything?
Mr. JACKSON. They pay it when they get back. I put a ticket on the car.
Mr. HUBERT. No, you misunderstood me. If they leave before you get there, then, of course, you----
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. There would be no payment, but if you find a car there when you get there----
Mr. JACKSON. If it is not monthly.
Mr. HUBERT. Someone that pays by the month and those cars you would recognize, or have some sort of a seal on them to indicate that they pay by the month?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, I know.
Mr. HUBERTT. You know the cars?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Ruby did not park by the month there?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. When you came up and saw this car did you put a ticket on it?
Mr. JACKSON. I put a ticket on it.
Mr. HUBERT. Were there any other cars parked in the lot?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; about, oh, I guess about six--about six more besides his, five or six more, I disremember.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, and you put a ticket on the car, did you notice whether the car was open, or closed?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir; I didn't. I just looked at the car and the key was gone. The keys wasn't in the switch, and I just got a ticket, just stamped the ticket and put it on the windshield.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there a dog in the car?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; I think so. It was--yes, it was a dog in the car.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any window open so that the dog could get some air?
Mr. JACKSON. I never looked whether there was or not.
Mr. HUBERT. Did that seem strange to you that there--somebody had a dog in the parked automobile?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, it did, two detectives came down, and they started searching the car, but they were looking for a key.
Mr. HUBERT. Were they able to open the door of the car?
Mr. JACKSON. I don't think the car was locked up, because they came down, well, they wasn't--it couldn't have been locked up, because they were looking for the key to the switch, because they wanted to take the car to the pound.
Mr. HUBERT. Before we get to that, how long after you got on duty and put the ticket on Mr. Ruby's car, did the detectives arrive?
Mr. JACKSON. Oh, about an hour or so, I guess. I believe about an hour or so.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did they have any difficulty in opening the doors of the car?
Mr. JACKSON. I never even noticed them until they was out there to the car. I was listening to the radio about it.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you say with reference to the detectives, what they were doing?
Mr. JACKSON. They were searching--they searched the car.
Mr. HUBERT. The doors were open by the time you saw it?
Mr. JACKSON. They was searching the car.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, answer my question, were the doors open or do you remember?
Mr. JACKSON. When I seen them they were searching they must have been open.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say "searching," do you mean they were searching the back?
Mr. JACKSON. Looking for a key. They said they were looking for a key.
 

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Mr. HUBERT. Key to what? The ignition?
Mr. JACKSON. The ignition key, and I think the trunk key, and they opened up the trunk and there was a bunch of sacks in the trunk. I don't know what was in them, and after they told me they was detectives, that was Jack Ruby's car, and I just took the ticket off the car and they were going--said they was going to take the car to the pound, and said something or another about calling somebody.
Mr. HUBERT. Doing what?
Mr. JACKSON. Said something or another about calling somebody, some of his relatives or something to see what they wanted to do with his dog. They were going to take the car to the pound.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they do anything with this dog, that you know of?
Mr. JACKSON. I don't know. They took the car to the pound.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened to the dog? Was it still in the car when they took it?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes; the dog was still in the car.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they make any calls that you knew of?
Mr. JACKSON. They went over and used the other telephone in John L. Daniels' office.
Mr. HUBERT. I see.
Mr. JACKSON. See, I don't have one in mine.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say you got to work about 12 o'clock?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes; around noon.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been hanging around before going on duty, or come directly.
Mr. JACKSON. No; I come directly from home and went to work.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't pass by the jail, or look around the jail?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you sure it was 12 o'clock, and not 11 o'clock, that you went on duty, sir?
Mr. JACKSON. It was around noon somewhere. I don't know--I don't know just what time it was, because I usually come down around 1 o'clock, but sometimes I get down there a little earlier.
Mr. HUBERT. It was after half past 11 in the morning?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; I'm pretty sure it was after.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you first find out that Oswald had been shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, we had a boy that run the lot during the day through the week and had a radio down there, and I usually turned it on when I come in, and when I put it on that was what was on.
Mr. HUBERT. The news was that he had already been shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know a man by the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, have you ever been interviewed by any member of the President's Commission staff?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Never been interviewed by me before?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, Mr. Jackson, I think that is all. Thank you very much.