STERLING CHARLES WOOD

The testimony of Sterling Charles Wood was taken at 3:20 p.m., on April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's "Commission.
 

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Mr. LIEBELER. Would you stand up, Sterling, and raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. WOOD. I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. Please sit down. Sterling, my name is Wesley J. Liebeler.
Mr. WOOD. Glad to meet you.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. I have been authorized to take testimony from witnesses such as you by the Commission, pursuant to provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress No. 137.
I believe that Mr. Rankin sent a letter to you and to your father last week, and that he enclosed copies of those two documents along with a copy of the rules governing the taking of testimony by the Commission or staff members. Do you remember getting that letter?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir; but I didn't read those rules.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is all right. Your father got them and you have them still in your possession?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you state your name for the record?
Mr. WOOD. Sterling Charles Wood.
Mr. LIEBELER. How old are you?
Mr. WOOD. Thirteen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you go to school?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you go to school?
Mr. WOOD. Boude Storey Junior High.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live?
Mr. WOOD. 1326 Alaska Street.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Commission has been advised that you and your father went out to the Sports Drome Gun Range on West Davis at about 8000 West Davis sometime in November, is that correct?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us the date that you went out there?
Mr. WOOD. It was the Saturday before. It was 6 days before the President was killed. It was a Saturday.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Saturday before he was assassinated?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who all went out to the range, just you and your father?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell me about what time you got out there?
Mr. WOOD. I would say it was about 1:30, right after my daddy was off from work.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did you stay out there?
Mr. WOOD. About an hour.
Mr. LIEBELER. You went out there to sight your rifle in for deer hunting?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you go deer hunting?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you get a deer?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; saw one.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you get a shot at it?
Mr. WOOD. Yes; I think I hit him and he jumped the fence.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now I understand that you and your father saw a man out there firing in the booth next to you?
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us what happened right there at the rifle range that day?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir; I came out there. I had-been shooting for about 10 or 15 minutes and he came up next to me and started shooting, and he only shot about 8 or 10 times and I noticed every time he got through shooting he would take the breech and open it up and put the shell in his pocket. We went down
 

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to check our target and I remembered that his was almost always in the eye. And as we came back to shoot again. I talked to him and I said, "Sir, is that a 6.5 Italian carbine?" And he said, "Yes, sir."
Mr. LIEBELER. Why did you ask him that question?
Mr. WOOD. Because I read gun books and I was pretty sure that was a 6.5 Italian carbine and I wanted to make sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you told your father about this, that that was an Italian carbine?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did you express it?
Mr. WOOD. I said, "Daddy, it looks like a 6.5 Italian carbine," and I asked him if it was a four-power scope, because it was funny looking, it wasn't American, and he said, "Yes, it was."
Mr. LIEBELER. Had you talked to your father about this fellow or this rifle before you talked to this guy?
Mr. WOOD. I think I said that it looked like an Italian make gun, to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You said that to your father?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember why you mentioned that particular gun to your father?
Mr. WOOD. Well, call it an Army rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. How could you tell that?
Mr. WOOD. Well, you can tell it had been scratched up and it was a surplus gun. It was probably--you can tell it was probably used in the war.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anything else peculiar about this rifle that made you mention it to your father?
Mr. WOOD. It had a sawed-off barrel, shorter barrel than most rifles were.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did the barrel of the rifle stick out?
Mr. WOOD. About that far out of the stock.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you say that was about 3 or 4 inches?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that the barrel was sawed off?
Mr. WOOD. You could tell it was shorter than most military rifles, and every-time he shot, a spit of fire would come out and I could feel the heat when he shot every time.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of a rifle do you have, Sterling?
Mr. WOOD. Winchester 30-30.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know about how long it is?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; I wouldn't have any idea. It is a shorter rifle than most of them, which is 30-30.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know how long a yardstick is? Can you visualize in your mind?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is your rifle longer or shorter than a yardstick?
Mr. WOOD. It is about, I would say it was shorter than a yardstick, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about the rifle that this fellow had, was it longer or shorter?
Mr. WOOD. Longer than a yard stick, because it is--a Winchester is a small gun to start off with, and a military rifle is a pretty long rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. This one, even though the barrel was sawed-off, you think it was still longer than a yardstick?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you guess about how much longer than a yardstick it would be?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; it wasn't too much bigger than a yardstick.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to this fellow any more than just ask him what you have already told us?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he said only two words to you?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he leave the range before you or after?
Mr. WOOD. Before I did.
 

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Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see him go?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did he go?
Mr. WOOD. He left with a man in a newer model car.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see the model?
Mr. WOOD. No, I didn't. They went into the parking lot. They went around and I heard the car door slam and they took off, but it was a newer model.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of car?
Mr. WOOD. It was a Ford, if I remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. About what year would you say?
Mr. WOOD. I don't remember. I just knew it was a newer model car.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it a convertible or station wagon?
Mr. WOOD. It was a hardtop.
Mr. LIEBELER. A hardtop?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. About this other fellow that this guy was with, was he a big man or just----
Mr. WOOD. About the same size this man was.
Mr. LIEBELER. How tall would you say this man was?
Mr. WOOD. Oh, about 5'9''.
Mr. LIEBELER. About 5'9"?
Mr. LIEBELER. Now the FBI talked to you about this once before or a couple of times, didn't they?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the FBI ask you now how this fellow left the range?
Mr. WOOD. What do you mean by that?
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you, did he go and get in a car or did he leave with somebody else?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember them asking you this?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what you told him?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you tell him?
Mr. WOOD. I told him they left in a newer model car. He had to go around through the main office because that was 30 yards down and he had to come around and he left in a newer model car with this man, and he wasn't driving.
Mr. LIEBELER. That the man who you saw firing was not driving?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell the FBI what kind of car it was?
Mr. WOOD. I think I told him, I am pretty sure it was a Ford. That is what I remember, because I like Fords and I remember what a Ford looks like.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell the FBI that this fellow who you saw shooting this rifle left with another man?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are pretty clear about that?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you also told that the fellow you saw shooting the rifle wasn't driving the car, is that right?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now later on the next week after the President was assassinated, did you see a picture of this man or observe his picture on television or the radio or newspaper, or see him in any other way?
Mr. WOOD. Are you talking about Oswald?
Mr. LIEBELER. The man that was firing at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. That is what made me notice him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us about that.
Mr. WOOD. The man out at the rifle range had a mean, stern face. You could tell he was a cold man, and that is what made me look at him more than I did anybody else. So when I saw the picture on television that night, I was sure it was him.
 

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Mr. LIEBELER. You spoke to your father about it?
Mr. WOOD. Yes; we went to get a paper about the assassination and I said, "Dad, that does look like the man to me." And he said it did, too.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your father mention it to you first, or did you mention it to your father?
Mr. WOOD. I mentioned it to him first.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned it to him first?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was your mother there when you mentioned it to him?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; she was out. We had gone out to get a paper.
Mr. LIEBELER. The first time you saw this guy's picture was in the newspaper, is that right?
Mr. LIEBELER. You told your father that this guy you saw at the rifle range looked like Oswald, based on the picture of Oswald in the newspaper?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did you ever read in the newspaper anything about Oswald's ability to drive an automobile?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; I didn't read anything about that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember whether or not Oswald could drive a car or not?
Mr. WOOD. I think he could, because my mother told me something about him going to Mexico or something.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now you said that your mother told you something about Oswald going to Mexico, is that right?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never were aware of the fact or heard that Oswald could not drive a car, is that right?
Mr. WOOD. Do you mean--I didn't get what you said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did, anybody ever tell you that Oswald couldn't drive a car?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never heard that?
Mr. WOOD. No sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you don't know that now?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; I thought he could drive.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did this other man that he was with fire a rifle at all?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not?
Mr. WOOD. No. sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Sterling, I want to show you some pictures of some men, and these pictures have previously been marked as Commission's Exhibit 451 and 453 through 456, sir; There are five of them. I want you to look at them and tell me if any of the pictures look like the guy you saw at the rifle range that you think was Oswald?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. None of those look like him?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now I want to show you another photograph which has not yet been marked, and ask you to look at it very carefully and tell me if any of the people in that picture look like the boy at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one?
Mr. WOOD. That one with the paper in his hand.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now I want to show you another picture that has been marked as Pizzo Exhibit 453-B, and ask you, that is the same picture, isn't it?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You pointed out that he has a green line over his head and you say that is the fellow you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Here is another picture that I want you to look at and see if you see anybody that looks like the fellow you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
 

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Mr. LIEBELER. Which one is that?
Mr. WOOD. That man right here.
Mr. LIEBELER. This one right here?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Here is another picture just the same one as the one I showed you.
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. The man that you pointed out as being the individual that you saw at the rifle range has a green mark over his head..There are two different marks. It looks like an "X," but it is two marks as opposed to one mark over here.
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you say that is the man you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to show you a picture that has been marked "Pizzo Exhibit 453-C," and ask you if that looks like the fellow you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you seen that picture before?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. One like it?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; not unless it's been in the paper. I think there has been one like that in the paper.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the FBI show you a picture of Oswald?
Mr. WOOD. They showed me a picture with his gun in his backyard.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you recognized that picture as being the man you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you two pictures that have been previously marked as Exhibits 3 and 4, on the deposition of Mr. Greener. Tell me whether that is the rifle the man had?
Mr. WOOD. It does look like the rifle, but the scope looks a little funny to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. What looks funny about the scope?
Mr. WOOD. Because I seem to remember when I got a glance, it seemed to get bigger at the end and get smaller as it went along.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you say that is not the scope that was on the rifle?
Mr. WOOD. I am not too sure, but I would say that looks like a foreign made scope.
Mr. LIEBELER. The one in this picture does?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are pretty sure in your own mind that the scope that was on the rifle at the range was not an American scope, is that correct?
Mr. WOOD. Yes; it looked Japanese.
Mr. LIEBELER. Sterling, you noticed how the sling is mounted on this rifle?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is mounted on the side on the butt, is it not? And on the side of the rifle, also?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the way the sling was on the rifle that you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. I am not too sure. It was either mounted underneath or on the side. I am not sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. You wouldn't remember one way or the other?
Mr. WOOD. I think it was mounted on the side. I am not too sure. I wouldn't want to be positive.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now do you remember that the FBI showed you a picture of a rifle?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is this the same picture?
Mr. WOOD. As I remember, it looks like the same picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell the FBI that the weapon in the picture that they showed you was not the one you observed out at the rifle range?
 

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Mr. WOOD. I said that was not the one. It didn't have this background in it. It's a picture that he showed me.
Mr. LIEBELER. This is not the same picture the FBI showed you?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now, the FBI did show you a picture of a rifle?
Mr. WOOD. Yes; it was an enlarged picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell them that that was the rifle that the man you think is Oswald had, or was not the rifle?
Mr. WOOD. I told them that was not the rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. You told them that was not the rifle?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. The rifle in this picture, is this the same rifle? Can you tell, or a different rifle that was in the picture that the FBI showed you?
Mr. WOOD. You mean to say--I don't know what you said.
Mr. LIEBELER. The FBI agent showed you a picture of a rifle?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is the rifle that he showed you, the picture that he showed you, the picture of the same rifle as is in the picture we have here on the desk, or were they different rifles or can you tell?
Mr. WOOD. I think they were the same rifles, except the rifle that he showed me didn't have that scope. I told them that that wasn't the scope.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is what you told me just now?
Mr. WOOD. Yes; so it would be a different rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. My question is this. Note that I am not asking you now whether this rifle is the same as the one that the fellow at the rifle range had, or whether or not the rifle that the FBI showed you, or the picture that the FBI showed you, was a picture of the same rifle that Oswald had on the rifle range--I just want to know now whether you can tell me whether the picture that I am showing you now is a picture of the same rifle as the FBI showed you.
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you still say now that the scope on this rifle doesn't look like the scope the guy at the rifle range had?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. But this is the same scope as in the picture that the FBI showed you?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the FBI ask you about the sling mount on the rifle?
Mr. WOOD. I think they did.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you tell them about that?
Mr. WOOD. I think I told them it was mounted on the underneath, I am not too sure. I wasn't too positive then when I told them that.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are not sure now?
Mr. WOOD. I am not sure now, because I didn't have that long of glance.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did the FBI agent talk to you? Did he try to convince you that it wasn't the same rifle, or just show the picture and let you tell?
Mr. WOOD. Let me tell.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't try to convince you one way or the other?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; he didn't try to force me one way or the other.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now the scope that we have here on this rifle is enlarged at the forward end, is it not?
Mr. WOOD. It is big towards the muzzle of the rifle; yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the way the scope was on the rifle that you saw at the rifle range, too?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir; but it was the same size as that, and it got smaller as it came to a point, but it was a big point.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now, this one here is big at the back and it gets smaller in the middle, and then gets bigger at the front end. Now, tell me the difference between this one and the one that you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. This was bigger and it got smaller as it went along.
 

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Mr. LIEBELER. It didn't get bigger at the forward end?
Mr. WOOD. No I didn't get that good a glance, but what I saw is what I told you.
Mr. LIEBELER. All right, you are pretty sure in your own mind that that was Lee Oswald that you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know Kenney Longley?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was he out there that day?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he see this guy?
Mr. WOOD. I don't know if he saw him or not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to him about it?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir; I think I did because I was standing, he was waiting in a booth to shoot. They all were filled up, and he stood back there and was noticing it, too. He noticed the fire coming out of the gun.
Mr. LIEBELER Well, now, have you talked to Kenney Longley about this fellow at the rifle range since the assassination?
Mr. WOOD. I haven't seen him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anybody else out there at the range that day that you knew?
Mr. WOOD. A friend of mine, Charles McDowell, but he was busy gathering shells.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he didn't see this guy, as far as you know?
Mr. WOOD. I don't know if he saw him. I don't think so. Maybe he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you talked to McDowell about it since the assassination?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ask McDowell whether he saw this fellow?
Mr. WOOD. No, sir; but I am pretty sure, because he was right next to him, and he was down under the booth gathering shells.
Mr. LIEBELER You said that you have talked to McDowell about this guy at the rifle range?
Mr. WOOD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you talk to him about?
Mr. WOOD. I talked to him about, I told him that very same night I talked to my daddy, and I called him on the phone and told him that I saw that man out there, and we talked about the President's death, and that was all. He said he remembered him, too, I think.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell him that you thought that the fellow at the rifle range was Oswald?
Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER What did he say?
Mr. WOOD. He didn't know, and he wasn't too sure, but he wasn't as close as I was to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where does this fellow live?
Mr. WOOD. McDowell?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. WOOD. Marsalis, the first street over from where I do. I don't know the address.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Sterling, I don't think I have any more questions that I can think of right now, but I want to say this: If you can think of anything else about this fellow that I haven't asked you about, or that you think you should tell me, I want you to tell me now so we can get it on the record.
Mr. WOOD. Well, I remember we went down to look at our target, and he left after I did. Because I went down there real quick and I remember looking at his, and as I was leaving, he came down to look at his target and was looking at how accurate it was, and that is about all I have to tell you.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was a pretty good shot?
Mr. WOOD. He was the most accurate of all the targets that I noticed.
Mr. LIEBELER. Okay, Sterling, I want to thank you very much. You have been very helpful. I hope we weren't too hard on you. The Commission wants you to know that it appreciates the cooperation you have given to us.
 

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Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Thank you very much.
Mr. WOOD All right.